1
00:00:28,236 --> 00:00:30,526
Um, when we interview my Dad,

2
00:00:30,527 --> 00:00:35,026
I'll probably want to send my Mum out.
- Mm-hmm.

3
00:00:35,027 --> 00:00:37,651
And I want him to be out
when I interview my Mum.

4
00:00:37,652 --> 00:00:38,652
Of course.

5
00:00:38,653 --> 00:00:40,443
Okay.

6
00:00:40,444 --> 00:00:42,735
Let's go with the flow.

7
00:00:42,736 --> 00:00:46,611
...the lamp and switch off
this overhead light for me?

8
00:00:58,861 --> 00:01:02,026
-Well do I look presentable? -Yep.

9
00:01:02,027 --> 00:01:04,444
You know I'm quite an old lady now.

10
00:01:05,819 --> 00:01:07,677
Thanks for getting the Mini-Bites, Mum.

11
00:01:08,236 --> 00:01:10,860
How many have you had? Please.

12
00:01:10,861 --> 00:01:12,776
-Can I have one, too? -Of course you can.

13
00:01:12,777 --> 00:01:13,527
Thank you.

14
00:01:13,527 --> 00:01:14,652
Where's Dad?

15
00:01:14,653 --> 00:01:15,860
He's resting.

16
00:01:15,861 --> 00:01:17,443
I'm just going to make Dad a cup of tea

17
00:01:17,444 --> 00:01:20,360
and then we're going to start...
- Another cup of tea?

18
00:01:20,361 --> 00:01:23,735
My God, it's a wonder he
doesn't look like a cup of tea,

19
00:01:23,736 --> 00:01:24,936
that man.

20
00:01:26,944 --> 00:01:30,193
Oh, go away, for goodness sake.

21
00:01:30,194 --> 00:01:32,943
Joe, can you just set
up that camera, please?

22
00:01:32,944 --> 00:01:34,277
Oh, thank you.

23
00:01:35,027 --> 00:01:39,902
Well I am actually sitting
down, waiting to be interviewed.

24
00:01:42,194 --> 00:01:43,027
Mum, we want to start.

25
00:01:43,028 --> 00:01:44,568
We've gotta go, doll.

26
00:01:44,569 --> 00:01:47,526
Oh, have you got a
list of questions for me?

27
00:01:47,527 --> 00:01:49,819
I do. Um...

28
00:01:50,861 --> 00:01:52,110
Are you ready?

29
00:01:52,111 --> 00:01:53,652
I'm ready.

30
00:01:55,361 --> 00:01:57,276
Shall we start at the beginning?

31
00:01:57,277 --> 00:01:59,736
Oh, do you think you can?

32
00:02:23,861 --> 00:02:27,360
I think the best place to
start my Mum's story is here,

33
00:02:27,361 --> 00:02:30,111
in the Lithuanian stetl of Dusetos.

34
00:02:33,027 --> 00:02:35,193
This is the street where my grandmother,

35
00:02:35,194 --> 00:02:36,861
Bubba Altke lived.

36
00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:39,818
Bubba was lucky.

37
00:02:39,819 --> 00:02:41,943
She left for London in the thirties,

38
00:02:41,944 --> 00:02:45,193
before the rest of our family
ended up in a death pit,

39
00:02:45,194 --> 00:02:48,361
courtesy of the Nazis
and their Lithuanian allies.

40
00:02:50,986 --> 00:02:52,235
In the East End of London,

41
00:02:52,236 --> 00:02:55,318
Bubba did what migrants
do, start a new life,

42
00:02:55,319 --> 00:02:59,236
with her son, Manny, and
her daughter, Lillian, my Mum.

43
00:03:02,194 --> 00:03:05,068
In the fifties, Mum had
two children of her own,

44
00:03:05,069 --> 00:03:07,401
Michelle and Andrew.

45
00:03:07,402 --> 00:03:09,485
Growing up, I discovered that one day,

46
00:03:09,486 --> 00:03:12,486
they disappeared and
she never saw them again.

47
00:03:16,527 --> 00:03:18,610
The horror of what happened to my Mum

48
00:03:18,611 --> 00:03:21,943
only really hit home when
I was living in Australia

49
00:03:21,944 --> 00:03:23,736
and had children of my own.

50
00:03:26,111 --> 00:03:27,526
It only then dawned on me

51
00:03:27,527 --> 00:03:29,651
that I and so many others

52
00:03:29,652 --> 00:03:32,319
were living the shadow
of that fateful day.

53
00:03:35,152 --> 00:03:38,026
The time has come to find
out what really happened

54
00:03:38,027 --> 00:03:40,694
to my Mum and her lost children.

55
00:03:45,277 --> 00:03:48,111
It seems all roads lead to London.

56
00:04:33,901 --> 00:04:36,360
Oh, here we are, then.

57
00:04:36,361 --> 00:04:37,569
Better late than never.

58
00:04:40,361 --> 00:04:42,526
Alright. Thanks so much.

59
00:04:48,026 --> 00:04:49,526
You dressed up for me.

60
00:04:52,151 --> 00:04:53,151
Hello.

61
00:04:53,152 --> 00:04:54,611
Hello, doll.

62
00:04:58,111 --> 00:04:59,151
How are you?

63
00:04:59,152 --> 00:05:01,068
Under the weather just for a change.

64
00:05:01,069 --> 00:05:01,777
Really?

65
00:05:01,778 --> 00:05:03,443
Yes, but all the better for seeing you.

66
00:05:03,444 --> 00:05:05,485
This is a nice cuddly outfit.

67
00:05:05,486 --> 00:05:07,818
-Hello. - Hi again.

68
00:05:07,819 --> 00:05:08,902
What's the number?

69
00:05:08,903 --> 00:05:15,818
Nine... nine...

70
00:05:15,819 --> 00:05:17,193
ooh, I don't remember.

71
00:05:17,194 --> 00:05:18,860
-Oh, are we trapped outside? -Yeah.

72
00:05:18,861 --> 00:05:20,525
-Is Dad there? -Yeah.

73
00:05:20,526 --> 00:05:22,194
Ring him, Dan.

74
00:05:24,611 --> 00:05:25,861
And then call.

75
00:05:27,194 --> 00:05:29,775
Please wait while your call is connected.

76
00:05:29,776 --> 00:05:31,818
Why does it have like a Russian in there?

77
00:05:31,819 --> 00:05:33,319
I don't know.

78
00:05:34,861 --> 00:05:37,650
-H? -No, he's got to answer, Mum.

79
00:05:37,651 --> 00:05:41,360
Why doesn't he answer the phone?

80
00:05:41,361 --> 00:05:43,900
We're trapped... we're trapped outside.

81
00:05:43,901 --> 00:05:46,443
- What? -We're trapped outside.

82
00:05:46,444 --> 00:05:48,068
No, one more time.

83
00:05:48,069 --> 00:05:49,818
Yes, yes.

84
00:05:49,819 --> 00:05:53,150
Oh H, for God's sake, get up.

85
00:05:53,151 --> 00:05:54,486
What's the number?

86
00:05:59,901 --> 00:06:01,236
Finally.

87
00:06:02,069 --> 00:06:04,985
Oh God.

88
00:06:04,986 --> 00:06:07,901
Never a dull moment, Daniel.

89
00:06:07,902 --> 00:06:11,527
I don't know how I
survived, to tell you the truth.

90
00:06:12,236 --> 00:06:14,318
I really do not know.

91
00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:16,151
If you would let me go,

92
00:06:16,152 --> 00:06:18,068
if you... come in, H, come in.

93
00:06:18,069 --> 00:06:19,026
Join the club.

94
00:06:19,027 --> 00:06:20,610
Welcome to the party.

95
00:06:20,611 --> 00:06:22,693
Oh dear, dear me.

96
00:06:22,694 --> 00:06:24,193
Aye aye aye aye aye.

97
00:06:24,194 --> 00:06:25,693
Did I take all the pills?

98
00:06:25,694 --> 00:06:27,525
So all those pills are for your memory?

99
00:06:27,526 --> 00:06:29,525
Memory business, yes.

100
00:06:29,526 --> 00:06:30,319
Yeah.

101
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,400
But she's not taking
them in regular doses.

102
00:06:33,401 --> 00:06:36,235
Oh I am. I take them twice a day, Henry.

103
00:06:36,236 --> 00:06:37,111
Very rarely do I...

104
00:06:37,112 --> 00:06:38,900
So why do I have to remind you?

105
00:06:38,901 --> 00:06:40,400
Well you remind me.

106
00:06:40,401 --> 00:06:42,860
Makes me take it a bit earlier.

107
00:06:42,861 --> 00:06:46,360
Alright Mum, let's just
focus on the story, please.

108
00:06:46,361 --> 00:06:48,401
What story are we doing?

109
00:06:49,736 --> 00:06:51,026
Okay.

110
00:06:54,944 --> 00:06:58,818
I found an old photograph of him.

111
00:06:58,819 --> 00:07:01,902
Come on, you old bugger, wherever you are.

112
00:07:03,236 --> 00:07:05,527
I know he's here somewhere.

113
00:07:12,236 --> 00:07:14,611
I will find it for you.

114
00:07:15,819 --> 00:07:17,025
Here he is.

115
00:07:17,026 --> 00:07:19,360
This is Raymond.

116
00:07:19,361 --> 00:07:22,651
This is the old bugger when
he was young and handsome.

117
00:07:28,151 --> 00:07:33,610
Raymond came from a
wealthy Iranian Jewish family.

118
00:07:33,611 --> 00:07:36,693
He came to London to study.

119
00:07:36,694 --> 00:07:39,525
He was 20 years old.

120
00:07:39,526 --> 00:07:42,193
There was this Christmas party,

121
00:07:42,194 --> 00:07:44,860
kiss under the mistletoe,

122
00:07:44,861 --> 00:07:50,860
I rang him and I started
seeing him quite frequently.

123
00:07:50,861 --> 00:07:54,318
Can you imagine being fourteen or fifteen,

124
00:07:54,319 --> 00:07:57,360
growing up the way I did.

125
00:07:57,361 --> 00:07:59,151
I didn't have a clue.

126
00:08:02,361 --> 00:08:05,694
So I was there for the
pickings, as you might say.

127
00:08:10,569 --> 00:08:13,985
I then got a job in a fashion shop

128
00:08:13,986 --> 00:08:15,735
in Regent Street.

129
00:08:15,736 --> 00:08:18,651
He's obviously very taken with me.

130
00:08:20,151 --> 00:08:22,525
I remember one of the
older girls was saying,

131
00:08:22,526 --> 00:08:25,525
'this kid is having a
better time than I am',

132
00:08:25,526 --> 00:08:30,444
'cause there's a dark, handsome
guy outside waiting for me.

133
00:08:32,694 --> 00:08:37,110
And the next best step
is a necking session,

134
00:08:37,111 --> 00:08:40,318
became into the real thing.

135
00:08:40,319 --> 00:08:43,193
And I did not have a clue, Daniel.

136
00:08:43,194 --> 00:08:46,026
We were not given sex education then.

137
00:08:46,027 --> 00:08:51,610
And unfortunately, on the first time

138
00:08:51,611 --> 00:08:54,193
that I was intimate, I became pregnant.

139
00:08:54,194 --> 00:08:56,026
That was it.

140
00:08:56,027 --> 00:08:57,485
How old were you?

141
00:08:57,486 --> 00:09:01,902
- I was about fifteen and a half, I would think.
- Oh my God.

142
00:09:05,152 --> 00:09:08,276
I was still pregnant with Andrew

143
00:09:08,277 --> 00:09:12,193
when we went to a Registry
Office and got married.

144
00:09:12,194 --> 00:09:16,568
But I was no more ready to be a mother

145
00:09:16,569 --> 00:09:19,319
than you are ready to go to the Moon.

146
00:09:24,986 --> 00:09:27,985
I didn't feel like a mother.

147
00:09:27,986 --> 00:09:30,776
I was still a child myself.

148
00:09:30,777 --> 00:09:32,610
I wasn't very happy,

149
00:09:32,611 --> 00:09:36,527
so Raymond said, 'we can go to Iran.'

150
00:09:45,611 --> 00:09:50,526
It was like going to another world.

151
00:09:50,527 --> 00:09:54,318
It was so different.

152
00:09:54,319 --> 00:09:59,111
And by this time, I was
pregnant with Michelle.

153
00:10:00,861 --> 00:10:04,776
Again, I wasn't very happy.

154
00:10:04,777 --> 00:10:08,236
So we came back to London.

155
00:10:18,319 --> 00:10:23,901
You look like quite a young, happy family.

156
00:10:23,902 --> 00:10:29,943
Well I suppose you have a
photo taken, and you smile,

157
00:10:29,944 --> 00:10:32,860
and so all the crap,

158
00:10:32,861 --> 00:10:35,485
for the want of a better expression,

159
00:10:35,486 --> 00:10:37,901
that doesn't show, Daniel.

160
00:10:37,902 --> 00:10:40,526
You pose for a photograph

161
00:10:40,527 --> 00:10:43,818
and who knows what's
behind that photograph?

162
00:10:43,819 --> 00:10:46,860
What was behind the photograph?

163
00:10:46,861 --> 00:10:49,069
Poverty, I would say.

164
00:11:01,694 --> 00:11:05,485
We lived with Bubba in Ainsworth Road.

165
00:11:05,486 --> 00:11:08,360
It was such a shame for my Mum,

166
00:11:08,361 --> 00:11:13,318
because she had remarried
this older gentleman.

167
00:11:13,319 --> 00:11:17,860
Here he was, taken in her daughter,

168
00:11:17,861 --> 00:11:22,318
with her husband, with two children.

169
00:11:22,319 --> 00:11:25,693
He was a bit acrimonious towards Raymond.

170
00:11:25,694 --> 00:11:28,526
You know, if you can't find a job,

171
00:11:28,527 --> 00:11:30,818
put some money on the table

172
00:11:30,819 --> 00:11:36,151
and unfortunately, my
stepfather asked him to leave.

173
00:11:36,152 --> 00:11:39,360
But did you want him to go, Raymond to go?

174
00:11:39,361 --> 00:11:43,027
I don't think I really wanted him to go.

175
00:11:50,861 --> 00:11:54,610
I and the children stayed there.

176
00:11:54,611 --> 00:11:57,026
We're living with Bubba.

177
00:11:57,027 --> 00:11:58,443
I gotta get a drink. Do you mind?

178
00:11:58,444 --> 00:12:00,526
I'll get you a drink. No, stay stay stay.

179
00:12:00,527 --> 00:12:02,193
I'll get you a drink.

180
00:12:02,194 --> 00:12:03,194
When you say 'we',

181
00:12:03,195 --> 00:12:06,610
just again, be clear
who you're talking about.

182
00:12:06,611 --> 00:12:09,027
I gotta get a pill the same time.

183
00:12:15,194 --> 00:12:17,360
I'm getting all emotional.

184
00:12:17,361 --> 00:12:18,735
Are you okay, darling?

185
00:12:18,736 --> 00:12:20,152
Yes.

186
00:12:27,194 --> 00:12:29,152
It's not a pretty story.

187
00:12:38,402 --> 00:12:39,777
Thank you.

188
00:12:47,444 --> 00:12:49,735
I should have a tissue somewhere.

189
00:12:49,736 --> 00:12:52,193
It's just very emotional, Daniel.

190
00:12:52,194 --> 00:12:53,444
I know.

191
00:13:01,361 --> 00:13:02,561
Okay.

192
00:13:06,569 --> 00:13:08,861
Right. Next question.

193
00:13:11,361 --> 00:13:13,693
Right, so I need to eject this...

194
00:13:13,694 --> 00:13:15,361
The drive, yes.

195
00:13:21,277 --> 00:13:24,026
I wouldn't do this for anybody else,

196
00:13:24,027 --> 00:13:26,526
you know that, don't you?

197
00:13:26,527 --> 00:13:29,276
Yes, but is it something you want to do?

198
00:13:29,277 --> 00:13:31,443
Oh no, I could do without it.

199
00:13:31,444 --> 00:13:32,693
So why are we doing it?

200
00:13:32,694 --> 00:13:34,610
Because you asked me to do it.

201
00:13:34,611 --> 00:13:36,443
Yeah, but I wouldn't do it
if you didn't want to do it.

202
00:13:36,444 --> 00:13:40,193
I know, but I know you wanted to do it.

203
00:13:40,194 --> 00:13:42,735
Yeah, but I still wouldn't do
it if you didn't want to do it.

204
00:13:42,736 --> 00:13:44,235
I didn't want to say no to you, Daniel.

205
00:13:44,236 --> 00:13:45,776
Well you could have said no to me.

206
00:13:45,777 --> 00:13:46,985
I could have said,

207
00:13:46,986 --> 00:13:49,236
but it wouldn't have been right, doll.

208
00:13:51,736 --> 00:13:53,693
And this is the road

209
00:13:53,694 --> 00:13:57,527
that Michelle and Andrew played in.

210
00:13:59,819 --> 00:14:02,819
I can't believe it, Daniel.

211
00:14:11,486 --> 00:14:16,068
Oh, look how different it all is.

212
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:18,736
Oh my God.

213
00:14:21,777 --> 00:14:26,611
I'm living with Bubba,
and the two children.

214
00:14:28,527 --> 00:14:32,610
And Raymond comes to visit.

215
00:14:32,611 --> 00:14:37,901
One particular day, he
comes, knocks on the door,

216
00:14:37,902 --> 00:14:40,401
he's going to take the
children to the park.

217
00:14:40,402 --> 00:14:42,693
I give him the children

218
00:14:42,694 --> 00:14:44,693
and he doesn't come back with them.

219
00:14:44,694 --> 00:14:49,151
So Raymond walked
up these steps one day...

220
00:14:49,152 --> 00:14:50,360
Yes.

221
00:14:50,361 --> 00:14:52,735
...came inside, or the
kids were brought outside?

222
00:14:52,736 --> 00:14:57,526
No, he rang on the bell,
I came down the stairs,

223
00:14:57,527 --> 00:14:59,193
I opened the door for him.

224
00:14:59,194 --> 00:15:02,943
He said, 'I want to take
the children to the park.'

225
00:15:02,944 --> 00:15:04,444
That was it.

226
00:15:19,486 --> 00:15:22,193
The last time I saw them,

227
00:15:22,194 --> 00:15:26,318
Andrew was three, Michelle was two.

228
00:15:26,319 --> 00:15:28,610
And you went to the police?

229
00:15:28,611 --> 00:15:31,193
I didn't go to the police, no.

230
00:15:31,194 --> 00:15:33,026
How come you didn't go to the police?

231
00:15:33,027 --> 00:15:35,568
Because in those days, Daniel,

232
00:15:35,569 --> 00:15:37,318
if you had a problem,

233
00:15:37,319 --> 00:15:39,693
you went to the Jewish Board of Guardians.

234
00:15:39,694 --> 00:15:41,861
You didn't go to the police, doll.

235
00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:50,236
I thought that he'd gone
back to Iran with them.

236
00:15:57,236 --> 00:16:01,776
And I remember sitting
there and crying so much.

237
00:16:01,777 --> 00:16:03,110
I've never forgotten it.

238
00:16:03,111 --> 00:16:06,861
I thought, 'I'll never
be able to cry again.'

239
00:16:21,069 --> 00:16:23,193
Well well well, look who's here.

240
00:16:23,194 --> 00:16:25,485
Good to see you again.

241
00:16:25,486 --> 00:16:26,236
How're you doing?

242
00:16:26,236 --> 00:16:27,152
Good, good.

243
00:16:27,153 --> 00:16:28,360
The family are well?

244
00:16:28,361 --> 00:16:29,194
Everyone's good.

245
00:16:29,195 --> 00:16:30,943
Oh great, great. Everyone's good.

246
00:16:30,944 --> 00:16:32,319
Come inside. Come in.

247
00:16:38,736 --> 00:16:42,360
Can you talk me through that fateful day

248
00:16:42,361 --> 00:16:44,735
when the kids were taken?

249
00:16:44,736 --> 00:16:47,901
I went to work, they were there,

250
00:16:47,902 --> 00:16:50,693
I came back from work, they were gone.

251
00:16:50,694 --> 00:16:52,277
What did the family do?

252
00:16:53,152 --> 00:16:55,360
Nothing we could do.

253
00:16:55,361 --> 00:16:57,860
What was there to do?

254
00:16:57,861 --> 00:16:59,610
Very very easily said.

255
00:16:59,611 --> 00:17:02,443
Well firstly, we didn't
know where they were.

256
00:17:02,444 --> 00:17:04,859
Yeah.

257
00:17:04,860 --> 00:17:08,526
Lillian was in a state,

258
00:17:08,527 --> 00:17:11,401
and I don't remember
too much else about it.

259
00:17:11,402 --> 00:17:12,527
At the end of the day,

260
00:17:12,528 --> 00:17:17,401
I think, in view of the
overall circumstance

261
00:17:17,402 --> 00:17:21,235
in which we were living,
it became a fait accompli.

262
00:17:24,152 --> 00:17:25,943
That what, it was just...

263
00:17:25,944 --> 00:17:28,526
That was it.

264
00:17:28,527 --> 00:17:30,026
Huh.

265
00:17:30,027 --> 00:17:31,526
That was it.

266
00:17:31,527 --> 00:17:34,818
Why did no one go to the police?

267
00:17:34,819 --> 00:17:37,152
It wouldn't have occurred to us.

268
00:17:38,569 --> 00:17:41,194
It was a father taking his children.

269
00:17:42,694 --> 00:17:44,152
Where's the crime?

270
00:17:45,986 --> 00:17:50,526
For me, yeah, sure, missed the children.

271
00:17:50,527 --> 00:17:52,443
It was traumatic,

272
00:17:52,444 --> 00:17:57,319
and felt it enough to
shut it out of my mind.

273
00:18:14,736 --> 00:18:17,651
I didn't know when I'd see them again.

274
00:18:17,652 --> 00:18:19,901
I didn't know if I'd see them again.

275
00:18:19,902 --> 00:18:23,902
You can't make them appear again.

276
00:18:25,486 --> 00:18:28,776
But because I was still so young,

277
00:18:28,777 --> 00:18:31,110
and very immature,

278
00:18:31,111 --> 00:18:35,860
I carried on with my
life the best way I could.

279
00:18:35,861 --> 00:18:40,526
I got a job, bought a dress,

280
00:18:40,527 --> 00:18:43,276
and I went to a dance hall eventually,

281
00:18:43,277 --> 00:18:45,527
and that's how I met Dad.

282
00:18:54,861 --> 00:18:56,610
So give us a kiss, H.

283
00:18:56,611 --> 00:18:58,693
Don't forget to take
the water, take the pills.

284
00:18:58,694 --> 00:19:00,276
I've taken the pills.

285
00:19:00,277 --> 00:19:01,943
Take more of the water, then.

286
00:19:01,944 --> 00:19:03,144
Okay, okay.

287
00:19:03,402 --> 00:19:05,319
-Bye bye. -Bye.

288
00:19:06,194 --> 00:19:09,485
And Lillian I met originally in a disco

289
00:19:09,486 --> 00:19:11,651
in Little Newport Street,

290
00:19:11,652 --> 00:19:13,735
and at the time everyone did cha-cha,

291
00:19:13,736 --> 00:19:17,276
and I remember she
was wearing a sailor's suit.

292
00:19:17,277 --> 00:19:19,319
You were physically attracted to her.

293
00:19:20,944 --> 00:19:23,401
How did you find out about the fact

294
00:19:23,402 --> 00:19:26,818
that she was previously
married and also had children?

295
00:19:26,819 --> 00:19:28,860
I think after the second date.

296
00:19:28,861 --> 00:19:29,777
She told me.

297
00:19:29,778 --> 00:19:31,193
She said, 'look, if
you're going out with me,

298
00:19:31,194 --> 00:19:32,569
I'd better tell you.'

299
00:19:35,902 --> 00:19:38,401
It often went into my mind,

300
00:19:38,402 --> 00:19:41,694
what would happen if
they'd suddenly turned up?

301
00:19:47,277 --> 00:19:50,026
I asked her if she'd try and find them.

302
00:19:50,027 --> 00:19:51,693
She said she had,

303
00:19:51,694 --> 00:19:56,526
and everyone had dissuaded
her, you know, no real point.

304
00:19:56,527 --> 00:20:01,860
Includes her mother and
it included her brother.

305
00:20:01,861 --> 00:20:05,151
They all more or less told her,
'look, you're wasting your time,

306
00:20:05,152 --> 00:20:06,693
and get on with your life' sort of thing.

307
00:20:06,694 --> 00:20:07,901
Now they'd met me

308
00:20:07,902 --> 00:20:10,151
and we were going to be a couple,

309
00:20:10,152 --> 00:20:13,736
and I think particularly once
children were on the way.

310
00:20:15,652 --> 00:20:17,401
And there comes a time

311
00:20:17,402 --> 00:20:20,943
when you've got to let
sleeping dogs lie, doll.

312
00:20:20,944 --> 00:20:25,360
I am so grateful that Dad marrying me,

313
00:20:25,361 --> 00:20:28,735
for having Daniel and Ira, for having you,

314
00:20:28,736 --> 00:20:31,444
and for all the good things.

315
00:20:58,902 --> 00:21:01,027
One, two, three!

316
00:21:25,111 --> 00:21:28,401
This is our Halloween...
our yearly Halloween event.

317
00:21:28,402 --> 00:21:30,610
This is I think our fourth year,

318
00:21:30,611 --> 00:21:33,026
as Halloween's become more popular.

319
00:21:33,027 --> 00:21:35,068
So it's a fundraising
event for All Dogs Matter,

320
00:21:35,069 --> 00:21:37,860
which is a charity which I run.

321
00:21:37,861 --> 00:21:40,151
We do the walk.

322
00:21:40,152 --> 00:21:42,360
This pub is... Spaniard's Inn

323
00:21:42,361 --> 00:21:43,694
is meant to be haunted.

324
00:21:58,152 --> 00:22:01,360
I remember Mum telling us she had kids,

325
00:22:01,361 --> 00:22:03,360
and they'd been taken away from her,

326
00:22:03,361 --> 00:22:04,361
and she didn't know where they were,

327
00:22:04,362 --> 00:22:05,985
but she always thought about them.

328
00:22:05,986 --> 00:22:07,985
But we were too young to really understand

329
00:22:07,986 --> 00:22:10,486
I think the full meaning
of what had happened.

330
00:22:11,819 --> 00:22:16,735
But then it just went on as normal life.

331
00:22:16,736 --> 00:22:19,151
It was never a plan of, 'oh,
we've got these children.

332
00:22:19,152 --> 00:22:21,611
How are we going to
work out finding them?'

333
00:22:34,194 --> 00:22:38,401
Do you think Mum did enough
to find Michelle and Andrew?

334
00:22:38,402 --> 00:22:41,193
Probably not really, no.

335
00:22:41,194 --> 00:22:42,568
Well she didn't really do anything.

336
00:22:42,569 --> 00:22:44,986
Oh, you know, not really.

337
00:22:48,027 --> 00:22:49,980
Maybe we should have come round this way.

338
00:22:57,986 --> 00:22:59,444
Abby!

339
00:23:00,736 --> 00:23:03,443
Oh sorry, Abs.

340
00:23:03,444 --> 00:23:04,901
Sorry, Ab.

341
00:23:04,902 --> 00:23:06,526
This sounds like a ridiculous analogy...

342
00:23:06,527 --> 00:23:07,569
Mmm.

343
00:23:07,570 --> 00:23:09,110
...but if someone came along...

344
00:23:09,111 --> 00:23:10,236
Mmm.

345
00:23:10,237 --> 00:23:12,026
...and took Abby -

346
00:23:12,027 --> 00:23:15,776
Ughh!

347
00:23:15,777 --> 00:23:17,360
I'd have to kill them.

348
00:23:17,361 --> 00:23:20,026
So you'd move heaven
and earth to find your dog.

349
00:23:20,027 --> 00:23:21,227
Yeah.

350
00:23:26,027 --> 00:23:29,776
We grew up in Hampstead Garden suburb,

351
00:23:29,777 --> 00:23:32,401
in a nice family home.

352
00:23:32,402 --> 00:23:39,401
We had a relatively nice life, I guess.

353
00:23:39,402 --> 00:23:43,901
But I do remember pending
quite a bit of time on our own.

354
00:23:43,902 --> 00:23:46,318
Mum wasn't a particularly
kind of proactive Mum,

355
00:23:46,319 --> 00:23:47,901
that would pick us up from school

356
00:23:47,902 --> 00:23:50,401
and take us out here,
there and everywhere.

357
00:23:50,402 --> 00:23:53,735
Yeah, I remember even the
dog collecting us from school,

358
00:23:53,736 --> 00:23:56,110
hence my affinity.

359
00:23:56,111 --> 00:23:58,694
So we were kind of farmed out quite a bit.

360
00:23:59,861 --> 00:24:05,985
Have you and Ira always
been a bit of a clash of energy?

361
00:24:05,986 --> 00:24:07,235
It's not a clash.

362
00:24:07,236 --> 00:24:09,610
I wouldn't call it a clash of energy,

363
00:24:09,611 --> 00:24:13,526
'cause I don't have
energy to waste on clashes.

364
00:24:13,527 --> 00:24:20,360
But I think it's um, a lack of connection.

365
00:24:20,361 --> 00:24:23,693
When Ira was born in November,

366
00:24:23,694 --> 00:24:26,360
I had to go to work for Christmas.

367
00:24:26,361 --> 00:24:32,693
So Ira was neglected
in her formative years.

368
00:24:32,694 --> 00:24:34,860
Whatever it is,

369
00:24:34,861 --> 00:24:38,026
I thank God that she's married to Phillip

370
00:24:38,027 --> 00:24:41,319
because I don't think she
could be married to anybody else.

371
00:24:47,527 --> 00:24:51,110
Guys, I've just arrived
home from Coventry.

372
00:24:51,111 --> 00:24:53,110
It's my wife's birthday tomorrow.

373
00:24:53,111 --> 00:24:56,735
I'm surprising her with Tesco's finest.

374
00:24:56,736 --> 00:24:58,902
Follow me.

375
00:25:03,527 --> 00:25:06,526
Happy birthday to you

376
00:25:06,527 --> 00:25:08,276
Happy birthday...

377
00:25:08,277 --> 00:25:09,610
Sorry, is this flat eighteen?

378
00:25:09,611 --> 00:25:12,193
You look so much like the woman I married.

379
00:25:12,194 --> 00:25:13,901
Hello.

380
00:25:13,902 --> 00:25:16,276
Good evening, baby.

381
00:25:16,277 --> 00:25:19,111
Look, it's just me and a film crew.

382
00:25:20,611 --> 00:25:22,651
Sit. That's it.

383
00:25:22,652 --> 00:25:23,985
I was talking to Ira.

384
00:25:23,986 --> 00:25:26,151
See, this is... this is
what I come home to.

385
00:25:26,152 --> 00:25:29,735
Obviously it's upsetting for
me to leave my other wife.

386
00:25:29,736 --> 00:25:33,193
I mean, but look, this is a
lovely thing to come home to.

387
00:25:33,194 --> 00:25:34,776
Very nice indeed.

388
00:25:34,777 --> 00:25:39,360
Um, I'm not exactly
certain what we should be...

389
00:25:39,361 --> 00:25:40,444
is there anything more?

390
00:25:40,444 --> 00:25:41,486
Is this a normal...

391
00:25:41,487 --> 00:25:43,401
oh, you want to see a normal homecoming?

392
00:25:43,402 --> 00:25:44,527
Right.

393
00:25:44,528 --> 00:25:47,401
So do you want to go
and have intercourse now?

394
00:25:47,402 --> 00:25:49,360
Come on, come on, let's go.

395
00:25:49,361 --> 00:25:51,193
Let's just get it over with.

396
00:25:51,194 --> 00:25:53,193
Ira was never found out.

397
00:25:53,194 --> 00:25:54,401
You've gotta get this straight.

398
00:25:54,402 --> 00:25:56,776
That story is completely wrong.

399
00:25:56,777 --> 00:25:58,110
Here's the record.

400
00:25:58,111 --> 00:26:00,318
A few weeks ago, on a Friday night,

401
00:26:00,319 --> 00:26:03,693
we sat down and the dynamic between

402
00:26:03,694 --> 00:26:08,568
Ira and your Mum and your Dad began.

403
00:26:08,569 --> 00:26:11,818
And it was, as usual
it was confrontational,

404
00:26:11,819 --> 00:26:16,860
it was irritating and there
was a row and more rows,

405
00:26:16,861 --> 00:26:18,068
as it normally happens.

406
00:26:18,069 --> 00:26:19,651
It wasn't a row. It was a discussion.

407
00:26:19,652 --> 00:26:21,526
- A discussion is not a row.
- No, alright. I know -

408
00:26:21,527 --> 00:26:23,943
A difference of opinion is not a row.

409
00:26:23,944 --> 00:26:26,235
Ira then left the table

410
00:26:26,236 --> 00:26:29,276
and you, Henry, and Lillian asked me,

411
00:26:29,277 --> 00:26:33,068
'why is Ira unable to
sit down with Lillian

412
00:26:33,069 --> 00:26:35,193
and display love for her?'

413
00:26:35,194 --> 00:26:36,568
And what was my response?

414
00:26:36,569 --> 00:26:38,068
Because she was abandoned as a child.

415
00:26:38,069 --> 00:26:39,776
No, that's not what I said.

416
00:26:39,777 --> 00:26:41,568
I didn't say she was abandoned.

417
00:26:41,569 --> 00:26:46,526
I said to you that in my
opinion, she was damaged.

418
00:26:46,527 --> 00:26:48,860
-She's damaged... -Damaged.

419
00:26:48,861 --> 00:26:51,151
...and the damage would have occurred...

420
00:26:51,152 --> 00:26:52,526
I haven't damaged her.

421
00:26:52,527 --> 00:26:56,526
Damage... in my view, she
was damaged in childhood.

422
00:26:56,527 --> 00:26:58,360
I did have a bad childhood,

423
00:26:58,361 --> 00:26:59,735
and I do remember you leaving home

424
00:26:59,736 --> 00:27:01,151
and going to the other side of the world

425
00:27:01,152 --> 00:27:02,401
and leaving me to deal with it all.

426
00:27:02,402 --> 00:27:04,068
Were you found out?

427
00:27:04,069 --> 00:27:05,111
No, but after school -

428
00:27:05,112 --> 00:27:06,860
The expression of found out means.

429
00:27:06,861 --> 00:27:08,318
After school and stuff, yes,

430
00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:09,277
I didn't...

431
00:27:09,278 --> 00:27:10,943
there were people that I used to stay with

432
00:27:10,944 --> 00:27:13,694
and took me out more so than Mum.

433
00:27:42,694 --> 00:27:45,360
Forty years after the children were taken,

434
00:27:45,361 --> 00:27:47,485
out of the blue I got a call from Mum,

435
00:27:47,486 --> 00:27:50,026
saying Michelle was looking for her.

436
00:27:50,027 --> 00:27:52,693
I told Mum she'd better prepare herself.

437
00:27:52,694 --> 00:27:57,276
She could be a druggie, a
pauper, on death row, anything.

438
00:27:57,277 --> 00:28:00,361
I was way off the mark.

439
00:28:26,736 --> 00:28:28,985
It's not the first time I've met Michelle,

440
00:28:28,986 --> 00:28:33,569
but now, he also wants to
get to the bottom of the story.

441
00:28:35,861 --> 00:28:38,026
All of this happened a long time ago,

442
00:28:38,027 --> 00:28:42,110
but there are some missing pieces here

443
00:28:42,111 --> 00:28:45,610
that would be nice if
we pieced them together,

444
00:28:45,611 --> 00:28:50,360
because I think that the
truth will set us all free.

445
00:28:50,361 --> 00:28:52,026
When you were growing up,

446
00:28:52,027 --> 00:28:54,985
where did you believe your mother was?

447
00:28:54,986 --> 00:28:58,401
I was told by my father

448
00:28:58,402 --> 00:29:03,735
that my mother could not take care of us.

449
00:29:03,736 --> 00:29:07,318
And she didn't want us.

450
00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:08,444
We were told that

451
00:29:08,445 --> 00:29:11,860
we were going to be given up for adoption.

452
00:29:11,861 --> 00:29:14,860
And when this is what
you are told this as a child,

453
00:29:14,861 --> 00:29:18,651
you have no value for yourself.

454
00:29:18,652 --> 00:29:21,193
If your mother doesn't want you,

455
00:29:21,194 --> 00:29:24,444
then who wants you?

456
00:29:27,361 --> 00:29:32,776
I didn't have the maturity
to ask more questions.

457
00:29:32,777 --> 00:29:35,611
Maybe I was scared, I'm not sure.

458
00:29:47,111 --> 00:29:49,610
This is Lillian Melena.

459
00:29:49,611 --> 00:29:52,652
This is when she was married to my father.

460
00:29:55,361 --> 00:29:57,151
Check that out.

461
00:29:57,152 --> 00:30:00,193
-Wow. -She gave that to me.

462
00:30:00,194 --> 00:30:03,276
This is probably what
she went to Iran with.

463
00:30:03,277 --> 00:30:04,693
So she would have been there...

464
00:30:04,694 --> 00:30:07,276
And then you know what my father says?

465
00:30:07,277 --> 00:30:12,693
He says that Bubba
would send Lillian pills

466
00:30:12,694 --> 00:30:14,611
so she could have an abortion.

467
00:30:16,319 --> 00:30:20,068
Where would Bubba get pills from

468
00:30:20,069 --> 00:30:24,193
to send you to have an abortion?

469
00:30:24,194 --> 00:30:27,735
She had no money, she had no English.

470
00:30:27,736 --> 00:30:31,986
Unless there was a Yiddish
black market for abortion pills.

471
00:30:46,861 --> 00:30:47,694
Hi, Mish.

472
00:30:47,695 --> 00:30:50,110
Hey Andrew, you're on speaker phone.

473
00:30:50,111 --> 00:30:53,318
I was just thinking about
you one second ago,

474
00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:55,360
and then you called. -Yes.

475
00:30:55,361 --> 00:30:56,527
Well Danny's here...

476
00:30:56,528 --> 00:30:59,068
- Hi, Andrew. -...with his camera crew.

477
00:30:59,069 --> 00:31:00,527
Okay.

478
00:31:02,611 --> 00:31:09,193
It's his opportunity to have a
cathartic experience, you know.

479
00:31:09,194 --> 00:31:14,277
To say what he's got to say,
because he went through hell.

480
00:31:40,694 --> 00:31:43,943
I was diagnosed about
two and a half years ago

481
00:31:43,944 --> 00:31:45,735
with leukaemia.

482
00:31:45,736 --> 00:31:51,319
I'm taking this new
medication, and I'm okay.

483
00:32:00,736 --> 00:32:06,360
I sell gourmet chips, Kosher potato chips,

484
00:32:06,361 --> 00:32:09,444
and I enjoy my business.

485
00:32:11,236 --> 00:32:13,818
Whatever happened in the past is the past.

486
00:32:13,819 --> 00:32:15,610
I look ahead.

487
00:32:15,611 --> 00:32:18,526
I do not disrespect my biological mother

488
00:32:18,527 --> 00:32:20,193
because she was young.

489
00:32:20,194 --> 00:32:21,610
If she had an opportunity to find us,

490
00:32:21,611 --> 00:32:23,568
she could have found us.

491
00:32:23,569 --> 00:32:27,818
She could have gone to the
Iranian Embassy in London.

492
00:32:27,819 --> 00:32:31,235
They could have found us in half an hour.

493
00:32:31,236 --> 00:32:33,026
Lillian, what'd she know?

494
00:32:33,027 --> 00:32:35,818
She was 17, 18 years old.

495
00:32:35,819 --> 00:32:37,443
She said... she said...

496
00:32:37,444 --> 00:32:40,693
well I said, 'if you
thought they were in Iran,

497
00:32:40,694 --> 00:32:43,068
you knew where the house
was, why didn't you go around?'

498
00:32:43,069 --> 00:32:44,526
She goes, 'firstly,

499
00:32:44,527 --> 00:32:47,026
how will I have the money to go to Iran?'
-Exactly.

500
00:32:47,027 --> 00:32:50,110
'Secondly, how would I...

501
00:32:50,111 --> 00:32:53,068
if he's there in Iran with everything,

502
00:32:53,069 --> 00:32:55,026
how would I possibly
get the children back?'

503
00:32:55,027 --> 00:32:56,318
Absolutely true.

504
00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:57,901
She could have easily gone to the police.

505
00:32:57,902 --> 00:33:00,693
Those days, we had international police.

506
00:33:00,694 --> 00:33:03,193
She could also have
filled an application out.

507
00:33:03,194 --> 00:33:04,818
It was very, very easy.

508
00:33:04,819 --> 00:33:06,610
I lean towards

509
00:33:06,611 --> 00:33:08,693
she could have and should have done more,

510
00:33:08,694 --> 00:33:11,610
but I'm not sure about what
advice she was being given.

511
00:33:11,611 --> 00:33:15,526
At the end of the day it's
your Dad who took you.

512
00:33:15,527 --> 00:33:16,527
If somebody said, 'Andrew,

513
00:33:16,528 --> 00:33:20,401
did your mother leave
you for somebody else,

514
00:33:20,402 --> 00:33:22,276
she just didn't want you anymore?

515
00:33:22,277 --> 00:33:24,943
What happened to you?'

516
00:33:24,944 --> 00:33:27,068
I want to know what
you're going to say to them.

517
00:33:27,069 --> 00:33:29,776
Well I wouldn't even answer the question.

518
00:33:29,777 --> 00:33:31,360
I wouldn't answer the question.

519
00:33:31,361 --> 00:33:33,360
So can I ask you,

520
00:33:33,361 --> 00:33:40,194
do you think Mum didn't want you?

521
00:33:47,027 --> 00:33:51,277
I can't... I can't really...

522
00:33:52,486 --> 00:33:54,443
it's very difficult to
answer this question,

523
00:33:54,444 --> 00:33:58,651
because I don't know.

524
00:33:58,652 --> 00:34:01,110
I think, you know, I
have a better relationship

525
00:34:01,111 --> 00:34:05,235
with Uncle Manny than our mother.

526
00:34:05,236 --> 00:34:08,193
I get along with Uncle Manny better.

527
00:34:08,194 --> 00:34:11,693
Have you ever discussed
any of this with Mum?

528
00:34:11,694 --> 00:34:13,027
No.

529
00:35:07,986 --> 00:35:10,026
The moment of truth has arrived.

530
00:35:10,027 --> 00:35:12,111
I'm going to have to talk to Raymond.

531
00:35:13,527 --> 00:35:14,860
He lives in Iran,

532
00:35:14,861 --> 00:35:16,526
so at least we won't come any closer

533
00:35:16,527 --> 00:35:20,693
than our respective computer screens.

534
00:35:20,694 --> 00:35:22,818
I've hired an Iranian crew

535
00:35:22,819 --> 00:35:25,861
to film the man who started it all.

536
00:35:29,527 --> 00:35:34,276
-Danny? -Yeah, I can see you.

537
00:35:34,277 --> 00:35:37,527
In England, the
children will go to mother.

538
00:35:39,611 --> 00:35:43,485
But I took my own children.

539
00:35:43,486 --> 00:35:45,944
I would not give them to anybody.

540
00:35:48,694 --> 00:35:52,318
My father was a royal tailor

541
00:35:52,319 --> 00:35:56,151
to three royalties.

542
00:35:56,152 --> 00:35:59,610
We have eight children

543
00:35:59,611 --> 00:36:02,901
and we went to good school.

544
00:36:02,902 --> 00:36:09,235
When you marry, you marry your level.

545
00:36:09,236 --> 00:36:12,026
You must marry your level.

546
00:36:12,027 --> 00:36:16,861
Unfortunately, Lillian was not my level.

547
00:36:18,319 --> 00:36:22,026
I had not the brain at the time

548
00:36:22,027 --> 00:36:24,860
to understand this thing.

549
00:36:24,861 --> 00:36:28,651
I was 21 years old and I love her.

550
00:36:28,652 --> 00:36:29,985
I don't understand how you could love her

551
00:36:29,986 --> 00:36:31,693
and then do what you did to her.

552
00:36:31,694 --> 00:36:33,360
Danny, your mother

553
00:36:33,361 --> 00:36:35,069
was not a bad woman.

554
00:36:38,694 --> 00:36:42,444
The witch, the bitch,
was your grandmother.

555
00:36:44,527 --> 00:36:47,276
I would not comply with her request.

556
00:36:47,277 --> 00:36:51,860
She wanted me to give
my child for adoption.

557
00:36:51,861 --> 00:36:54,360
I never heard of this in my life.

558
00:36:54,361 --> 00:36:57,526
Do you really think that,
after losing all her family,

559
00:36:57,527 --> 00:37:00,610
she'd want to give away her grand-children?
- Yes.

560
00:37:00,611 --> 00:37:02,610
She told me many times...

561
00:37:02,611 --> 00:37:05,360
Go to hell!

562
00:37:05,361 --> 00:37:09,027
Now she went to hell.

563
00:37:11,736 --> 00:37:14,736
Danny, has your mother grown up?

564
00:37:16,027 --> 00:37:19,235
I want to know if your
mother has grown up.

565
00:37:19,236 --> 00:37:24,026
She's now a 76 year old lady.

566
00:37:24,027 --> 00:37:28,985
He took Michelle and Andrew
from her when she was 18.

567
00:37:28,986 --> 00:37:31,360
What does he think?

568
00:37:31,361 --> 00:37:33,860
That she's a 16 year old girl

569
00:37:33,861 --> 00:37:35,444
that he got together with?

570
00:37:37,027 --> 00:37:39,860
It's a ridiculous question.

571
00:37:39,861 --> 00:37:42,194
I'm sorry, but it's a ridiculous question.

572
00:37:50,986 --> 00:37:53,235
We had a neighbour,

573
00:37:53,236 --> 00:37:56,943
and she knew our situation,

574
00:37:56,944 --> 00:38:00,776
so she said that she knew these people

575
00:38:00,777 --> 00:38:03,361
that was interested in adopting.

576
00:38:04,444 --> 00:38:07,485
She asked, we said no.

577
00:38:07,486 --> 00:38:09,736
It never went further than that.

578
00:38:23,236 --> 00:38:31,236
I can remember leaving
England, and going to live in Israel.

579
00:38:31,444 --> 00:38:36,693
We were living with my
grandmother and grandfather.

580
00:38:36,694 --> 00:38:41,110
He was more a father
than my own father was.

581
00:38:41,111 --> 00:38:42,401
I really believed,

582
00:38:42,402 --> 00:38:44,151
and my grandmother would tell me,

583
00:38:44,152 --> 00:38:47,360
a story that she had this many children

584
00:38:47,361 --> 00:38:50,401
and the last child was Andrew and myself.

585
00:38:50,402 --> 00:38:51,693
So I really believed

586
00:38:51,694 --> 00:38:55,526
that my grandmother gave birth to us.

587
00:38:55,527 --> 00:38:57,693
I remember my grandmother

588
00:38:57,694 --> 00:39:00,693
holding me and loving me,

589
00:39:00,694 --> 00:39:04,069
but I was taken away from that, too.

590
00:39:06,694 --> 00:39:09,526
When my grandfather passed away,

591
00:39:09,527 --> 00:39:13,318
we were sent back to England.

592
00:39:13,319 --> 00:39:15,151
You know, nobody said at that time,

593
00:39:15,152 --> 00:39:17,318
'here are two small children,

594
00:39:17,319 --> 00:39:19,735
you're the only mother they know.'

595
00:39:19,736 --> 00:39:21,401
They just threw us,

596
00:39:21,402 --> 00:39:24,319
just sent us back to England.

597
00:39:34,861 --> 00:39:37,151
My father really couldn't take care

598
00:39:37,152 --> 00:39:38,818
of two small children,

599
00:39:38,819 --> 00:39:42,985
and we were dropped
off in a boarding school.

600
00:39:42,986 --> 00:39:44,985
I think I must have been about

601
00:39:44,986 --> 00:39:47,611
maybe seven, eight.

602
00:39:50,194 --> 00:39:53,985
I don't remember my
father really visiting us.

603
00:39:53,986 --> 00:39:55,318
I do remember one day

604
00:39:55,319 --> 00:39:56,860
specifically standing,

605
00:39:56,861 --> 00:40:01,068
looking outside and
saying to myself, 'this is it.'

606
00:40:01,069 --> 00:40:03,777
'You're never going to see him again.'

607
00:40:06,652 --> 00:40:09,401
That boarding school
was like a prison to us.

608
00:40:09,402 --> 00:40:12,277
We were in a cage.

609
00:40:14,694 --> 00:40:16,443
What am I doing here?

610
00:40:16,444 --> 00:40:18,736
Who do I have?

611
00:40:25,277 --> 00:40:26,652
I have Michelle.

612
00:40:28,736 --> 00:40:30,027
Too much.

613
00:40:35,027 --> 00:40:36,443
What's so tragic is that

614
00:40:36,444 --> 00:40:38,860
while Mum thought the
children were out of reach,

615
00:40:38,861 --> 00:40:41,235
thousands of miles away in Iran,

616
00:40:41,236 --> 00:40:44,068
their boarding school was
just an hour down the road

617
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:46,361
from where she lived.

618
00:40:55,944 --> 00:41:01,985
And here you're having
your birthday party.

619
00:41:01,986 --> 00:41:03,276
You've got to realise, Daniel,

620
00:41:03,277 --> 00:41:06,485
I didn't particularly need
them back into my life.

621
00:41:06,486 --> 00:41:08,360
If she's happy as she was,

622
00:41:08,361 --> 00:41:09,818
and she's got two children,

623
00:41:09,819 --> 00:41:12,485
a similar sort of thing, a boy and a girl,

624
00:41:12,486 --> 00:41:14,068
and everyone was quite happy

625
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:17,776
and it wasn't... we were
doing very well at the time,

626
00:41:17,777 --> 00:41:19,401
certainly didn't need to disturb things

627
00:41:19,402 --> 00:41:21,027
and throw things up.

628
00:41:33,444 --> 00:41:36,860
In 1966, I had the first

629
00:41:36,861 --> 00:41:41,235
ladies' boutique in
Carnaby Street, Lady Jane,

630
00:41:41,236 --> 00:41:43,526
and it was very, very successful.

631
00:41:43,527 --> 00:41:46,443
It was fantastic
'cause it was full of life,

632
00:41:46,444 --> 00:41:48,819
and it was all different colours.

633
00:41:57,736 --> 00:42:00,693
We had girls changing
their clothes in the window.

634
00:42:00,694 --> 00:42:04,360
It was the biggest publicity
stunt ever in this country.

635
00:42:04,361 --> 00:42:06,069
It was fantastic.

636
00:42:10,444 --> 00:42:11,693
I was arrested,

637
00:42:11,694 --> 00:42:14,401
charged with obstruction of the highway.

638
00:42:14,402 --> 00:42:17,194
A two pound fine.

639
00:42:21,277 --> 00:42:26,193
Was there any discussion in the sixties,

640
00:42:26,194 --> 00:42:27,735
particularly when you were in this

641
00:42:27,736 --> 00:42:30,735
Carnaby Street world,
about Michelle and Andrew?

642
00:42:30,736 --> 00:42:31,985
No.

643
00:42:31,986 --> 00:42:34,360
Not as far as I was concerned. Not really.

644
00:42:34,361 --> 00:42:36,651
Was there ever ay thought given to like,

645
00:42:36,652 --> 00:42:40,110
for example, hiring a private detective?

646
00:42:40,111 --> 00:42:42,235
No, it was never discussed,

647
00:42:42,236 --> 00:42:43,568
as far as I was concerned.

648
00:42:43,569 --> 00:42:46,068
-You could have done. -We could have done.

649
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:48,276
Why do you think something
like that didn't happen?

650
00:42:48,277 --> 00:42:50,651
-Wasn't my affair, was it? -No...

651
00:42:50,652 --> 00:42:53,860
Wasn't... it wasn't... to
be honest about it, Daniel,

652
00:42:53,861 --> 00:42:55,860
they are not my children.

653
00:42:55,861 --> 00:42:57,693
Never will be my children.

654
00:42:57,694 --> 00:42:59,193
They'll be your mother's children.

655
00:42:59,194 --> 00:43:01,776
She's a person that gives up easily,

656
00:43:01,777 --> 00:43:03,568
and if she's got a problem

657
00:43:03,569 --> 00:43:05,193
she'll bury her head under the stand.

658
00:43:05,194 --> 00:43:06,611
I've always said that.

659
00:43:17,569 --> 00:43:18,652
Life's good, right?

660
00:43:18,653 --> 00:43:21,026
You got married, the money's coming in.

661
00:43:21,027 --> 00:43:23,651
You buy a nice big house in
Hampstead Garden suburb,

662
00:43:23,652 --> 00:43:26,818
you got two kids again.

663
00:43:26,819 --> 00:43:28,526
I was very blessed.

664
00:43:28,527 --> 00:43:30,110
Hashem was very good to me.

665
00:43:30,111 --> 00:43:33,110
But, Daniel, the problem was,

666
00:43:33,111 --> 00:43:38,068
that when I was on my own originally,

667
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:41,193
oh, I'm getting a need
for a cigarette again.

668
00:43:41,194 --> 00:43:43,068
Since when do you smoke?

669
00:43:43,069 --> 00:43:45,526
Only under pressure, doll.

670
00:43:45,527 --> 00:43:47,276
It's that or Ativan,

671
00:43:47,277 --> 00:43:50,235
and if I have too many
Ativans I'll go off altogether.

672
00:43:50,236 --> 00:43:52,026
What, Ativans are anti-depressants?

673
00:43:52,027 --> 00:43:53,443
Yes, yes.

674
00:43:53,444 --> 00:43:56,527
Um, they've saved my sanity.

675
00:44:02,361 --> 00:44:04,776
Giving birth to another child,

676
00:44:04,777 --> 00:44:08,068
it's only now I understand it,

677
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:12,193
must have triggered off
a lot in my subconscious,

678
00:44:12,194 --> 00:44:14,526
because after having Ira,

679
00:44:14,527 --> 00:44:18,360
I got a depression.

680
00:44:18,361 --> 00:44:21,526
I don't ever recall

681
00:44:21,527 --> 00:44:27,151
anyone saying to me, 'Lillian,

682
00:44:27,152 --> 00:44:31,151
your illness is because
of what happened to you.'

683
00:44:31,152 --> 00:44:33,818
Right, so no one put two and two together.

684
00:44:33,819 --> 00:44:36,318
When you say, what,
two and two together...

685
00:44:36,319 --> 00:44:38,735
Your severe depression,

686
00:44:38,736 --> 00:44:44,193
and the fact that you had your
two children stolen from you.

687
00:44:44,194 --> 00:44:46,151
Well, that's what happened, Dan.

688
00:44:46,152 --> 00:44:47,776
I can't say different, doll.

689
00:44:47,777 --> 00:44:49,110
No, it's not your fault.

690
00:44:49,111 --> 00:44:51,235
I know it's not my fault,

691
00:44:51,236 --> 00:44:53,569
but God did I pay the price.

692
00:44:57,944 --> 00:44:59,860
But I was so bad, Daniel,

693
00:44:59,861 --> 00:45:02,027
I was taken into hospital.

694
00:45:03,027 --> 00:45:06,651
I don't remember being suicidal,

695
00:45:06,652 --> 00:45:12,068
but I was really, um, how could I say it?

696
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:13,693
I was really out of it.

697
00:45:13,694 --> 00:45:15,360
I was very bad.

698
00:45:15,361 --> 00:45:17,610
So what was the nadir?

699
00:45:17,611 --> 00:45:21,693
What was the lowest
point of her ill health?

700
00:45:21,694 --> 00:45:24,568
I don't know whether you
will need this on camera,

701
00:45:24,569 --> 00:45:26,818
but you might.

702
00:45:26,819 --> 00:45:31,318
They wanted her to have
this electric shock treatment.

703
00:45:31,319 --> 00:45:33,693
-Jeez. -Yes.

704
00:45:33,694 --> 00:45:35,443
And I stopped it.

705
00:45:35,444 --> 00:45:38,026
-Electric shock treatment? -Yeas.

706
00:45:38,027 --> 00:45:39,693
-Electric shock treatment. -Yeah.

707
00:45:39,694 --> 00:45:42,401
You obviously didn't know. -No.

708
00:45:42,402 --> 00:45:44,485
They once spoke about it

709
00:45:44,486 --> 00:45:46,526
and I said, 'no, she's not having that.'

710
00:45:46,527 --> 00:45:48,193
I remember going to that hospital

711
00:45:48,194 --> 00:45:49,860
for a long time after school. -Yeah.

712
00:45:49,861 --> 00:45:51,526
But I've got no idea how long,

713
00:45:51,527 --> 00:45:54,486
and I can't remember
anything from inside the hospital.

714
00:46:10,361 --> 00:46:11,776
There we are.

715
00:46:11,777 --> 00:46:14,360
'Cause Mr Moss always complains

716
00:46:14,361 --> 00:46:18,526
that I never make
enough of these potatoes,

717
00:46:18,527 --> 00:46:22,027
so I've put as many as I could in the pan.

718
00:46:36,569 --> 00:46:37,860
Hello, Lillian.

719
00:46:37,861 --> 00:46:39,110
I've returned.

720
00:46:39,111 --> 00:46:41,526
I'm always pleased to see you.

721
00:46:41,527 --> 00:46:43,776
-How are you, Lillian? -Not bad.

722
00:46:43,777 --> 00:46:45,318
-Well I... -Still off the booze, Manny?

723
00:46:45,319 --> 00:46:46,194
Still off the booze.

724
00:46:46,195 --> 00:46:48,193
I sincerely hope you are on the booze,

725
00:46:48,194 --> 00:46:51,027
because quite frankly, I prefer you drunk.

726
00:46:54,194 --> 00:46:59,276
Can we have no unpolitically
correct discussions tonight?

727
00:46:59,277 --> 00:47:00,860
-And maybe... -Race, creed.

728
00:47:00,861 --> 00:47:02,443
...we could also have,
while we're about it,

729
00:47:02,444 --> 00:47:05,110
you taking a little bit of a powder

730
00:47:05,111 --> 00:47:07,693
You know, just a little bit.

731
00:47:07,694 --> 00:47:09,861
It won't do you any harm, doll.

732
00:47:12,319 --> 00:47:13,236
Yes.

733
00:47:13,237 --> 00:47:14,860
Mum has no recollection.

734
00:47:14,861 --> 00:47:20,568
She used to phone me
so often when I was in...

735
00:47:20,569 --> 00:47:22,318
Where are my little side plates?

736
00:47:22,319 --> 00:47:23,194
Did I not take them...

737
00:47:23,194 --> 00:47:24,152
They're here.

738
00:47:24,153 --> 00:47:27,026
We thought it'd take more
room on the table, Lillian.

739
00:47:27,027 --> 00:47:28,818
Yeah, but Henry wants them.

740
00:47:28,819 --> 00:47:30,318
Henry wants them.

741
00:47:30,319 --> 00:47:31,651
We're coming in one second.

742
00:47:31,652 --> 00:47:32,694
Don't worry. Don't worry.

743
00:47:32,695 --> 00:47:36,318
She used to phone me
up so many times in the day

744
00:47:36,319 --> 00:47:41,526
and say, 'Pat, I want to...

745
00:47:41,527 --> 00:47:44,651
I want to kill myself.'

746
00:47:44,652 --> 00:47:47,401
Those were her words.

747
00:47:47,402 --> 00:47:49,943
'I want to kill myself.'

748
00:47:49,944 --> 00:47:52,443
And it was during that time

749
00:47:52,444 --> 00:47:56,402
that she did take an overdose.

750
00:48:25,569 --> 00:48:27,651
Oh, sorry Henry.

751
00:48:27,652 --> 00:48:28,861
Please.

752
00:48:30,819 --> 00:48:33,235
Do you mind being quiet for a minute?

753
00:48:33,236 --> 00:48:34,436
Hello?

754
00:48:45,652 --> 00:48:47,026
Mum doesn't even know that

755
00:48:47,027 --> 00:48:48,485
I'm talking to you now.

756
00:48:48,486 --> 00:48:52,193
It's more for me than for her.

757
00:48:52,194 --> 00:48:55,360
Mum's life was completely

758
00:48:55,361 --> 00:49:00,485
devastated by what happened,

759
00:49:00,486 --> 00:49:03,485
of not having Michelle and Andrew.

760
00:49:03,486 --> 00:49:05,776
It is her own fault.

761
00:49:05,777 --> 00:49:07,235
You know why?

762
00:49:07,236 --> 00:49:08,651
Why?

763
00:49:08,652 --> 00:49:11,985
She was devastated
because she couldn't see them.

764
00:49:11,986 --> 00:49:15,151
Anybody stopped her?

765
00:49:15,152 --> 00:49:19,235
Anybody stop Lillian to go
and see Andrew and Michelle?

766
00:49:19,236 --> 00:49:21,443
Did I stop her?

767
00:49:21,444 --> 00:49:24,193
Didn't she know where they live?

768
00:49:24,194 --> 00:49:25,236
She knew.

769
00:49:25,237 --> 00:49:26,443
But she didn't know

770
00:49:26,444 --> 00:49:27,651
when they were in boarding school.

771
00:49:27,652 --> 00:49:30,860
If she didn't know their address,

772
00:49:30,861 --> 00:49:33,610
how could she send me a letter to go

773
00:49:33,611 --> 00:49:36,068
and give her a divorce?

774
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:37,693
She knew.

775
00:49:37,694 --> 00:49:39,193
They weren't really in Iran,

776
00:49:39,194 --> 00:49:41,526
they were in boarding school in England.

777
00:49:41,527 --> 00:49:43,068
But I didn't know.

778
00:49:43,069 --> 00:49:46,110
That bastard never let me know.

779
00:49:46,111 --> 00:49:47,360
He never said.

780
00:49:47,361 --> 00:49:49,693
I didn't know they were in England.

781
00:49:49,694 --> 00:49:52,526
I... how would I know?

782
00:49:52,527 --> 00:49:53,694
And then how long was the period of time

783
00:49:53,695 --> 00:49:56,693
between taking the kids and the divorce?

784
00:49:56,694 --> 00:49:58,068
Till they found him,

785
00:49:58,069 --> 00:50:01,526
till they got it organised,
till it happened,

786
00:50:01,527 --> 00:50:06,193
I would say two and a half years.

787
00:50:06,194 --> 00:50:07,693
Jewish Board of Guardians

788
00:50:07,694 --> 00:50:10,110
got him there for the divorce.

789
00:50:10,111 --> 00:50:13,568
It was done, and I never saw him again.

790
00:50:13,569 --> 00:50:15,360
I must be honest with you,

791
00:50:15,361 --> 00:50:18,985
I don't remember asking
him about the children.

792
00:50:18,986 --> 00:50:22,860
Maybe I did, maybe I didn't.

793
00:50:22,861 --> 00:50:26,360
But I cannot put my hand on the good book,

794
00:50:26,361 --> 00:50:31,193
'cause I really don't remember, Daniel.

795
00:50:31,194 --> 00:50:35,276
Do you think that might
have been an opportunity lost?

796
00:50:35,277 --> 00:50:37,194
Possibly, yes.

797
00:50:44,236 --> 00:50:47,068
I felt almost like an orphan

798
00:50:47,069 --> 00:50:50,777
until Amanda came into our lives.

799
00:51:03,694 --> 00:51:06,527
I was 22 when I met Raymond in London.

800
00:51:08,152 --> 00:51:09,352
Magic.

801
00:51:10,111 --> 00:51:13,026
He was very good looking,

802
00:51:13,027 --> 00:51:15,026
I absolutely fell for him

803
00:51:15,027 --> 00:51:17,026
hook, line and sinker.

804
00:51:17,027 --> 00:51:21,027
He was ten years my senior.

805
00:51:23,277 --> 00:51:25,776
We went to meet Andrew and Michelle

806
00:51:25,777 --> 00:51:27,485
when they were in school.

807
00:51:27,486 --> 00:51:30,318
I could see, you know,
how he cared about them.

808
00:51:30,319 --> 00:51:32,110
They were very happy to see him,

809
00:51:32,111 --> 00:51:35,568
and I could see that there was love there.

810
00:51:35,569 --> 00:51:37,360
Immediately, Andrew ran

811
00:51:37,361 --> 00:51:40,194
and took hold of his father's hand.

812
00:51:44,652 --> 00:51:46,985
He took me out one evening,

813
00:51:46,986 --> 00:51:50,360
and he said, 'will you be my wife?'

814
00:51:50,361 --> 00:51:53,818
And I said, 'on one condition:

815
00:51:53,819 --> 00:51:57,568
that I can be a mother
to Andrew and Michelle.'

816
00:51:57,569 --> 00:51:59,361
And he said, 'of course.'

817
00:52:02,694 --> 00:52:05,943
I went with Raymond to Iran

818
00:52:05,944 --> 00:52:09,110
when I was three months pregnant

819
00:52:09,111 --> 00:52:12,526
and Andrew and Michelle
were in boarding school.

820
00:52:12,527 --> 00:52:14,943
They were not very happy

821
00:52:14,944 --> 00:52:18,694
and they wrote many
letters to us, which I still have.

822
00:52:20,611 --> 00:52:22,443
But I have to look for them.

823
00:52:22,444 --> 00:52:24,693
I'm not exactly sure where they are

824
00:52:24,694 --> 00:52:26,902
because I'm a hoarder.

825
00:52:28,694 --> 00:52:31,485
Here we go.

826
00:52:31,486 --> 00:52:33,318
Here are the letters.

827
00:52:33,319 --> 00:52:37,193
-Cool. -1964.

828
00:52:37,194 --> 00:52:38,361
'Dear Mummy and Daddy,

829
00:52:38,362 --> 00:52:40,610
I hope you are well and happy.'

830
00:52:40,611 --> 00:52:42,360
'We are both very well at school

831
00:52:42,361 --> 00:52:44,318
and missing you very much.

832
00:52:44,319 --> 00:52:48,860
Are we going to Tehran
on the 23rd of July,

833
00:52:48,861 --> 00:52:51,069
when school ends?'

834
00:52:52,027 --> 00:52:54,860
You can feel the stress.

835
00:52:54,861 --> 00:52:56,151
'Please write soon

836
00:52:56,152 --> 00:52:58,569
and tell us when we are going home.'

837
00:53:00,527 --> 00:53:02,568
I couldn't take it.

838
00:53:02,569 --> 00:53:05,360
Why shouldn't they be with us?

839
00:53:05,361 --> 00:53:08,235
I discussed this with Raymond,

840
00:53:08,236 --> 00:53:10,276
so Raymond, he signed up the children

841
00:53:10,277 --> 00:53:13,444
to go to school in Tehran.

842
00:53:18,777 --> 00:53:21,276
I think Amanda treated us

843
00:53:21,277 --> 00:53:23,776
like her own kids.

844
00:53:23,777 --> 00:53:25,986
She was like a mother and a father to me.

845
00:53:28,402 --> 00:53:32,110
Amanda loved me and cared about me.

846
00:53:32,111 --> 00:53:35,319
When I told her of a
pain, she addressed it.

847
00:53:37,319 --> 00:53:39,401
d Soldier, soldier

848
00:53:39,402 --> 00:53:40,693
d Won't you marry me?

849
00:53:40,694 --> 00:53:45,443
d With your musket, fife and drum Oh no...

850
00:53:45,444 --> 00:53:47,526
Before I came into

851
00:53:47,527 --> 00:53:49,693
Andrew and Michelle's lives,

852
00:53:49,694 --> 00:53:52,694
I'm quite sure nobody sang
nursery rhymes to them.

853
00:53:54,111 --> 00:53:56,276
Michelle used to dream sometimes

854
00:53:56,277 --> 00:53:57,527
that I would leave her.

855
00:53:59,402 --> 00:54:03,318
That was something
that really frightened her.

856
00:54:03,319 --> 00:54:05,526
And I used to say to her,

857
00:54:05,527 --> 00:54:09,193
'even if Papa and I don't stay together,

858
00:54:09,194 --> 00:54:11,318
you will always be with me.'

859
00:54:11,319 --> 00:54:13,652
'Don't worry, I'll never
leave you. Never.'

860
00:54:25,486 --> 00:54:27,568
I wasn't free.

861
00:54:27,569 --> 00:54:29,610
Everything was done through Raymond.

862
00:54:29,611 --> 00:54:31,401
If I could visit this one, or couldn't,

863
00:54:31,402 --> 00:54:34,193
if I could go shopping.

864
00:54:34,194 --> 00:54:35,693
Michelle, she would see things

865
00:54:35,694 --> 00:54:38,360
and she'd point them
out to me and she said,

866
00:54:38,361 --> 00:54:40,526
'Mum, you know, why do you take it?

867
00:54:40,527 --> 00:54:43,319
Why don't you say anything?'

868
00:54:45,236 --> 00:54:47,151
Raymond never told me

869
00:54:47,152 --> 00:54:51,526
that he had a mistress
by the name of Rosetta.

870
00:54:51,527 --> 00:54:53,610
Raymond never told me that he had

871
00:54:53,611 --> 00:54:55,151
two children.

872
00:54:55,152 --> 00:54:57,361
They were living in Israel at that time.

873
00:54:59,527 --> 00:55:01,526
- Eli? - Yes.

874
00:55:01,527 --> 00:55:05,526
I've got here Michelle
and Andrew's half-brother

875
00:55:05,527 --> 00:55:07,693
who's come to Israel,

876
00:55:07,694 --> 00:55:10,276
and he'd like to talk to you.

877
00:55:10,277 --> 00:55:12,068
Is that alright?

878
00:55:12,069 --> 00:55:13,818
Yes, why not? -Good.

879
00:55:13,819 --> 00:55:16,860
Okay, so I'll let you talk.

880
00:55:16,861 --> 00:55:19,360
You forgot to mention
the documentary part.

881
00:55:19,361 --> 00:55:21,443
No no I didn't, I left it
up to you on purpose,

882
00:55:21,444 --> 00:55:22,860
on purpose.

883
00:55:22,861 --> 00:55:24,776
-Eli. - Yes.

884
00:55:24,777 --> 00:55:27,235
Hi, my name is Danny.

885
00:55:27,236 --> 00:55:29,901
As I've been delving more
and more into the story,

886
00:55:29,902 --> 00:55:31,568
trying to work out

887
00:55:31,569 --> 00:55:34,318
how could such a thing happen to my Mum

888
00:55:34,319 --> 00:55:36,276
and my half-siblings,

889
00:55:36,277 --> 00:55:39,777
the name of your Mum has
come up on several occasions.

890
00:55:40,694 --> 00:55:44,193
Eli! If you were interested
and if you were available,

891
00:55:44,194 --> 00:55:47,651
I'd love to come and have
a chat with you on camera.

892
00:55:47,652 --> 00:55:50,444
Wow, it's amazing.

893
00:55:53,027 --> 00:55:55,068
-Your mother was Rosetta. -Right.

894
00:55:55,069 --> 00:55:56,901
-And your father was Raymond. -Correct.

895
00:55:56,902 --> 00:56:01,276
Do you know if your Mum
knew about Raymond taking...

896
00:56:01,277 --> 00:56:04,151
Yes, I know the whole story.

897
00:56:04,152 --> 00:56:05,860
And you heard it from who?

898
00:56:05,861 --> 00:56:08,068
-From my mother. -Okay.

899
00:56:08,069 --> 00:56:11,776
And most people that, you know, my aunts

900
00:56:11,777 --> 00:56:16,485
and these, they told me that
your mother got up one day

901
00:56:16,486 --> 00:56:19,068
and she left for no reason.

902
00:56:19,069 --> 00:56:20,985
-My Mum left? -Yeah.

903
00:56:20,986 --> 00:56:23,818
-Left where? -She run away.

904
00:56:23,819 --> 00:56:25,360
-That's what your Mum said? -Yeah.

905
00:56:25,361 --> 00:56:26,527
-About my Mum? -Yeah.

906
00:56:26,528 --> 00:56:29,318
-You're kidding me. -No.

907
00:56:29,319 --> 00:56:33,026
She got up one day, and she just left,

908
00:56:33,027 --> 00:56:35,861
and she left the two kids by Raymond.

909
00:56:38,527 --> 00:56:41,401
What happened is, they were divorced,

910
00:56:41,402 --> 00:56:43,360
or formally separated.

911
00:56:43,361 --> 00:56:44,402
One day he came,

912
00:56:44,403 --> 00:56:46,318
he took Michelle and Andrew to the park

913
00:56:46,319 --> 00:56:49,026
and he never came back.

914
00:56:49,027 --> 00:56:51,151
And that was the last time
my mother saw her children

915
00:56:51,152 --> 00:56:54,277
for 40 years.

916
00:57:06,194 --> 00:57:12,026
If I tell you a story,
you won't believe it.

917
00:57:12,027 --> 00:57:13,944
You won't believe it.

918
00:57:17,194 --> 00:57:21,985
I never knew my father until I was,

919
00:57:21,986 --> 00:57:28,068
I believe, seven, maybe six.

920
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:29,111
He took us.

921
00:57:29,112 --> 00:57:31,610
He bought us a ticket to Meanora

922
00:57:31,611 --> 00:57:33,651
who lives in Israel, and
he asked us to come

923
00:57:33,652 --> 00:57:36,526
and visit him in Iran.

924
00:57:36,527 --> 00:57:39,901
We went to Iran for the summer,

925
00:57:39,902 --> 00:57:43,693
and he did the same thing a different way,

926
00:57:43,694 --> 00:57:47,193
that he didn't want us
to come back to Israel.

927
00:57:47,194 --> 00:57:48,693
He had our passports and everything,

928
00:57:48,694 --> 00:57:53,110
and he said, 'by Persian
law they are Persian,

929
00:57:53,111 --> 00:57:57,068
and I cannot let you take the kids back.'

930
00:57:57,069 --> 00:58:04,276
You know Daniel, the
memory that I had in Iran,

931
00:58:04,277 --> 00:58:06,360
it wasn't very pleasant.

932
00:58:06,361 --> 00:58:10,276
He took... he took a stick

933
00:58:10,277 --> 00:58:16,151
and he tied me to the tree. -Oh God. What?

934
00:58:16,152 --> 00:58:17,526
Tied you to a tree?

935
00:58:17,527 --> 00:58:21,194
He tied me to a tree in Dumavan

936
00:58:23,194 --> 00:58:26,485
because I was making pee-pee in the bed.

937
00:58:26,486 --> 00:58:27,776
Yes, he's right.

938
00:58:27,777 --> 00:58:28,861
I gave him a good hiding.

939
00:58:28,862 --> 00:58:30,276
I nearly killed him.

940
00:58:30,277 --> 00:58:32,860
He was a baby.

941
00:58:32,861 --> 00:58:34,318
At the age of 13, 14,

942
00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:35,777
he used to piss in bed.

943
00:58:39,569 --> 00:58:42,568
Why did Rosetta come

944
00:58:42,569 --> 00:58:47,026
to Tehran by surprise?

945
00:58:47,027 --> 00:58:49,151
Why did she do that?

946
00:58:49,152 --> 00:58:52,235
Because I wanted to keep them in Iran.

947
00:58:52,236 --> 00:58:56,485
I wanted to keep Eli and Ora in Iran,

948
00:58:56,486 --> 00:59:00,151
because I knew that she
couldn't look after them.

949
00:59:00,152 --> 00:59:03,026
When they were in Iran,
I took them to school,

950
00:59:03,027 --> 00:59:05,485
I put them to school, I look after them,

951
00:59:05,486 --> 00:59:07,443
I got teacher for them.

952
00:59:07,444 --> 00:59:09,443
But she was stupid.

953
00:59:09,444 --> 00:59:12,068
'What about me?'

954
00:59:12,069 --> 00:59:13,818
'Go to hell!'

955
00:59:13,819 --> 00:59:17,151
They are children with
a future in front of them.

956
00:59:17,152 --> 00:59:19,861
I have to think about them, not about you.

957
00:59:21,069 --> 00:59:23,193
Were you... were you married to Rosetta,

958
00:59:23,194 --> 00:59:24,776
or you just had the children with her?

959
00:59:24,777 --> 00:59:27,694
I never marry everybody I sleep with.

960
00:59:37,527 --> 00:59:39,318
One night, all of a sudden,

961
00:59:39,319 --> 00:59:44,401
there was this tremendous
bashing at the door, downstairs.

962
00:59:44,402 --> 00:59:46,776
Boom boom, the front door.

963
00:59:46,777 --> 00:59:49,693
Rosetta came running up the stairs.

964
00:59:49,694 --> 00:59:51,818
She went over to a tray

965
00:59:51,819 --> 00:59:55,235
and she took a very,
very sharp butcher's knife.

966
00:59:55,236 --> 00:59:58,068
She pulled her children to her,

967
00:59:58,069 --> 01:00:03,026
held the knife in front of her and said,

968
01:00:03,027 --> 01:00:05,861
'nobody's going to take
my children away from me.'

969
01:00:07,527 --> 01:00:09,943
When he came up, I
said, 'no, don't kill him,

970
01:00:09,944 --> 01:00:12,026
don't kill him.'

971
01:00:12,027 --> 01:00:13,610
My mother would go

972
01:00:13,611 --> 01:00:15,027
but his throat.

973
01:00:16,527 --> 01:00:18,860
That's how tough she is.

974
01:00:18,861 --> 01:00:21,151
Rosetta was there and she had a knife.

975
01:00:21,152 --> 01:00:23,443
'I want my kids back.'

976
01:00:23,444 --> 01:00:26,026
So I can remember that she fought.

977
01:00:26,027 --> 01:00:27,818
And then he made this scene.

978
01:00:27,819 --> 01:00:29,151
You know, 'these are my kids.'

979
01:00:29,152 --> 01:00:31,026
Said, 'no, I'm going
to take my kids back.'

980
01:00:31,027 --> 01:00:32,194
And she took her kids back.

981
01:00:32,195 --> 01:00:33,943
She took Eli and Ora back.

982
01:00:33,944 --> 01:00:36,861
So she fought and she got them back.

983
01:00:39,027 --> 01:00:40,901
I know Andrew was very upset

984
01:00:40,902 --> 01:00:43,943
that Lillian didn't come to look for him.

985
01:00:43,944 --> 01:00:45,360
He resented it for a long time.

986
01:00:45,361 --> 01:00:46,861
He told me that.

987
01:01:09,486 --> 01:01:11,026
I went to an American school

988
01:01:11,027 --> 01:01:13,026
when I was in Iran.

989
01:01:13,027 --> 01:01:14,568
This school prepared you

990
01:01:14,569 --> 01:01:16,693
to go to college in America,

991
01:01:16,694 --> 01:01:19,026
and I had gotten a scholarship and

992
01:01:19,027 --> 01:01:23,276
I had told my father
that I had a scholarship

993
01:01:23,277 --> 01:01:27,486
and that I needed to answer
them at a certain amount of time.

994
01:01:29,944 --> 01:01:32,526
Michelle said to her father, 'Papa,

995
01:01:32,527 --> 01:01:34,401
when are you going to
give me the registration

996
01:01:34,402 --> 01:01:36,693
fee for the university?'

997
01:01:36,694 --> 01:01:38,151
And her father said,

998
01:01:38,152 --> 01:01:42,985
'can you tell me, if I
send you to America,

999
01:01:42,986 --> 01:01:46,360
if you will behave properly?'

1000
01:01:46,361 --> 01:01:50,443
And Michelle said to him,
'Papa, you brought me up.

1001
01:01:50,444 --> 01:01:53,860
Don't you trust in your upbringing?'

1002
01:01:53,861 --> 01:01:56,443
He just turned around, he slapped her

1003
01:01:56,444 --> 01:02:00,068
across the face as hard as he could.

1004
01:02:00,069 --> 01:02:02,318
She had this red mark on her face,

1005
01:02:02,319 --> 01:02:05,694
and he broke his hand, actually.

1006
01:02:07,527 --> 01:02:09,526
At that time I realised that

1007
01:02:09,527 --> 01:02:12,526
I couldn't live in his home.

1008
01:02:12,527 --> 01:02:16,401
I just knew that I had to run away.

1009
01:02:16,402 --> 01:02:19,194
I was 17 years old.

1010
01:02:25,694 --> 01:02:32,276
I travelled from Afghanistan into Pakistan

1011
01:02:32,277 --> 01:02:35,401
and from Pakistan into India,

1012
01:02:35,402 --> 01:02:38,318
and from India I flew to London.

1013
01:02:38,319 --> 01:02:41,527
Then from England I flew to America.

1014
01:02:43,694 --> 01:02:45,026
I had no idea where she was.

1015
01:02:45,027 --> 01:02:47,235
I was beside myself.

1016
01:02:47,236 --> 01:02:49,360
She didn't leave me a note or anything.

1017
01:02:49,361 --> 01:02:50,818
It's kind of ironic, isn't it,

1018
01:02:50,819 --> 01:02:54,360
because Michelle was
taken from her mother,

1019
01:02:54,361 --> 01:02:58,901
and then she leaves the
woman who's become her mother.

1020
01:02:58,902 --> 01:03:02,026
No, she wasn't leaving me.

1021
01:03:02,027 --> 01:03:04,194
She was leaving a situation.

1022
01:03:05,861 --> 01:03:08,860
It was very painful for me to leave her.

1023
01:03:08,861 --> 01:03:11,276
I loved her so much.

1024
01:03:11,277 --> 01:03:16,193
I remember when I was got her first letter

1025
01:03:16,194 --> 01:03:19,193
when I ran away,

1026
01:03:19,194 --> 01:03:22,527
and I don't think I've
ever cried like that.

1027
01:03:31,736 --> 01:03:33,901
When the revolution started,

1028
01:03:33,902 --> 01:03:38,360
Mandy left Iran, came to Israel.

1029
01:03:38,361 --> 01:03:40,818
I always wanted to run away

1030
01:03:40,819 --> 01:03:44,318
but wasn't able to leave Iran.

1031
01:03:44,319 --> 01:03:45,860
But when Khomeini came,

1032
01:03:45,861 --> 01:03:50,361
I was able to save enough
money to come to the States.

1033
01:03:53,527 --> 01:03:55,651
We were sitting on the couch

1034
01:03:55,652 --> 01:03:58,693
in the living room, watching the news.

1035
01:03:58,694 --> 01:04:01,735
The Ayatollah coming
into Iran with the revolution,

1036
01:04:01,736 --> 01:04:02,902
and you know,

1037
01:04:02,903 --> 01:04:04,568
everyone in black and
he was being carried.

1038
01:04:04,569 --> 01:04:06,110
I even remember that image.

1039
01:04:06,111 --> 01:04:08,401
And it was like, you know,
that old style television,

1040
01:04:08,402 --> 01:04:09,985
big thick wood,

1041
01:04:09,986 --> 01:04:14,860
and I remember my Dad turning to my Mum

1042
01:04:14,861 --> 01:04:16,901
and saying, 'there's no chance

1043
01:04:16,902 --> 01:04:19,193
you'll see Michelle and Andrew again now.'

1044
01:04:19,194 --> 01:04:20,194
Wow.

1045
01:04:20,195 --> 01:04:22,276
Okay, when I was like
ten or eleven ears old

1046
01:04:22,277 --> 01:04:24,401
and the Iranian revolution is going on,

1047
01:04:24,402 --> 01:04:26,193
do you go, 'oh right, I'll
never see them again.'

1048
01:04:26,194 --> 01:04:27,361
You know, that's it.

1049
01:04:27,362 --> 01:04:31,860
But then you hit twenty or thirty,

1050
01:04:31,861 --> 01:04:35,027
I actually never did
anything to try and find them.

1051
01:04:59,736 --> 01:05:02,401
I was depressed,

1052
01:05:02,402 --> 01:05:04,610
probably my whole life.

1053
01:05:04,611 --> 01:05:06,860
But you don't know it.

1054
01:05:06,861 --> 01:05:08,901
It's only when you're
not depressed anymore

1055
01:05:08,902 --> 01:05:10,943
that you look back and
say, 'you know what?

1056
01:05:10,944 --> 01:05:13,694
I wasn't so happy.'

1057
01:05:18,319 --> 01:05:23,360
And when I had my son, Nisan,

1058
01:05:23,361 --> 01:05:28,526
I always feel that a
monster came alive in me.

1059
01:05:28,527 --> 01:05:31,151
Something moved me inside.

1060
01:05:31,152 --> 01:05:32,776
Everything woke up.

1061
01:05:32,777 --> 01:05:40,777
All the sadness and pain just came out.

1062
01:05:41,194 --> 01:05:44,860
But I would say that this all came up

1063
01:05:44,861 --> 01:05:47,693
when my son was becoming Bah Mitzvahed.

1064
01:05:47,694 --> 01:05:50,026
It was a very painful time for me.

1065
01:05:50,027 --> 01:05:58,027
I remember crying, and um,
wondering, 'where is she?'

1066
01:05:58,986 --> 01:06:00,401
And how come,

1067
01:06:00,402 --> 01:06:03,693
as much as I loved my stepmother, Amanda,

1068
01:06:03,694 --> 01:06:05,568
and adored her,

1069
01:06:05,569 --> 01:06:08,693
it really came about.

1070
01:06:08,694 --> 01:06:09,819
'Where is she?'

1071
01:06:09,820 --> 01:06:14,151
And she could be here,
and she could be in this

1072
01:06:14,152 --> 01:06:18,569
joyous, my very first joyous occasion.

1073
01:06:21,486 --> 01:06:24,235
I wrote a letter to the Salvation Army,

1074
01:06:24,236 --> 01:06:25,901
saying that I had been

1075
01:06:25,902 --> 01:06:29,111
searching for my birth mother, Lillian.

1076
01:06:31,861 --> 01:06:35,026
I had no fear that Lillian

1077
01:06:35,027 --> 01:06:37,693
would not want to connect with me,

1078
01:06:37,694 --> 01:06:42,110
but I remember holding back,

1079
01:06:42,111 --> 01:06:44,861
and knowing that
anything could be possible.

1080
01:06:51,361 --> 01:06:54,276
Lillian and Henry lived across the road.

1081
01:06:54,277 --> 01:06:56,193
We were very friendly.

1082
01:06:56,194 --> 01:06:58,735
Sadly, they lost the house

1083
01:06:58,736 --> 01:07:01,568
and after that, either my husband

1084
01:07:01,569 --> 01:07:04,818
or myself used to pick
up the post regularly here

1085
01:07:04,819 --> 01:07:07,901
until they were ready to pick it up.

1086
01:07:07,902 --> 01:07:11,276
And there was this large pile of post,

1087
01:07:11,277 --> 01:07:13,526
and while I was making
the tea in the kitchen,

1088
01:07:13,527 --> 01:07:16,193
Lillian was going through the post

1089
01:07:16,194 --> 01:07:20,818
and I suddenly heard the most awful sound.

1090
01:07:20,819 --> 01:07:22,110
'Betty!'

1091
01:07:22,111 --> 01:07:24,068
The way she said it, I thought,

1092
01:07:24,069 --> 01:07:26,276
God knows what's happening.

1093
01:07:26,277 --> 01:07:31,068
And I came in the room
and she was absolutely white

1094
01:07:31,069 --> 01:07:33,860
as a sheet and trembling.

1095
01:07:33,861 --> 01:07:36,693
And her hand was shaking
and she held the letter

1096
01:07:36,694 --> 01:07:38,027
out to me.

1097
01:07:40,444 --> 01:07:42,610
It was unbelievable.

1098
01:07:42,611 --> 01:07:44,193
We just couldn't speak.

1099
01:07:44,194 --> 01:07:46,318
We just sat there.

1100
01:07:46,319 --> 01:07:48,360
My immediate instinct was to get

1101
01:07:48,361 --> 01:07:51,526
in touch immediately
with the Salvation Army.

1102
01:07:51,527 --> 01:07:54,068
Lillian's was not.

1103
01:07:54,069 --> 01:07:55,194
She said, no,

1104
01:07:55,195 --> 01:08:00,319
she's got to think about
it, and speak to Henry.

1105
01:08:01,194 --> 01:08:02,152
She said, 'I got a letter.

1106
01:08:02,153 --> 01:08:04,026
I got to show it to you.'

1107
01:08:04,027 --> 01:08:05,860
And what was your response?

1108
01:08:05,861 --> 01:08:07,151
Right, it's happened.

1109
01:08:07,152 --> 01:08:09,401
Said, 'it's good for you.

1110
01:08:09,402 --> 01:08:10,901
Let them come or wherever, you go there,

1111
01:08:10,902 --> 01:08:12,569
wherever it is.'

1112
01:08:17,486 --> 01:08:19,610
Bubba said to me,

1113
01:08:19,611 --> 01:08:22,943
that one day there will
be a knock at the door.

1114
01:08:22,944 --> 01:08:24,525
You'll answer the door.

1115
01:08:24,526 --> 01:08:26,860
Michelle and Andrew will come

1116
01:08:26,861 --> 01:08:29,735
and find Lillian Uncle Manny.

1117
01:08:29,736 --> 01:08:33,025
They did come, in the form of a letter.

1118
01:08:33,026 --> 01:08:34,985
I haven't discussed this yet with Manny.

1119
01:08:34,986 --> 01:08:36,610
It has come up in conversation -

1120
01:08:36,611 --> 01:08:40,025
I'm wary to say anything about that.

1121
01:08:40,026 --> 01:08:41,775
Talk to Manny first.

1122
01:08:41,776 --> 01:08:43,485
-Okay. -Okay?

1123
01:08:43,486 --> 01:08:44,900
Okay.

1124
01:08:44,901 --> 01:08:49,525
Because I didn't know that I wasn't

1125
01:08:49,526 --> 01:08:52,611
the only one to get the
letter for a long, long time.

1126
01:08:55,526 --> 01:08:58,360
It might have been mentioned that

1127
01:08:58,361 --> 01:09:02,150
Manny got a letter as well,

1128
01:09:02,151 --> 01:09:04,650
but very pie in the sky.

1129
01:09:04,651 --> 01:09:07,736
Nothing concrete.

1130
01:09:09,569 --> 01:09:11,525
They could have found Lillian a year

1131
01:09:11,526 --> 01:09:13,360
or two earlier.

1132
01:09:13,361 --> 01:09:15,525
I think they had corresponded before,

1133
01:09:15,526 --> 01:09:18,193
but Manny made ashempash of the letter

1134
01:09:18,194 --> 01:09:19,735
and he didn't want it shown.

1135
01:09:19,736 --> 01:09:22,193
There were things that
are difficult and dark.

1136
01:09:22,194 --> 01:09:23,111
Exactly.

1137
01:09:23,112 --> 01:09:24,610
How do I go to my Uncle...

1138
01:09:24,611 --> 01:09:25,651
Exactly.

1139
01:09:25,652 --> 01:09:29,443
...and say, 'hold on, my half-sister was

1140
01:09:29,444 --> 01:09:34,360
looking for my Mum, and
you kind of sent her away.'

1141
01:09:34,361 --> 01:09:35,694
That's pretty awkward.

1142
01:09:37,861 --> 01:09:41,900
Well, I mean,

1143
01:09:41,901 --> 01:09:46,568
ah, were you... just trying to think

1144
01:09:46,569 --> 01:09:49,193
where to begin, where
to begin, where to begin.

1145
01:09:49,194 --> 01:09:51,235
Um, when Mum got the

1146
01:09:51,236 --> 01:09:54,068
Salvation Army letter, what was it like?

1147
01:09:54,069 --> 01:09:54,986
Manny got a letter at the same time.

1148
01:09:54,987 --> 01:09:56,360
I got a letter as well, you see.

1149
01:09:56,361 --> 01:09:57,361
There were two letters.

1150
01:09:57,362 --> 01:10:01,776
I had a letter as well.

1151
01:10:01,777 --> 01:10:06,026
I hung on to my letter for
a while, because I thought

1152
01:10:06,027 --> 01:10:08,360
Lillian being in the state she's in...

1153
01:10:08,361 --> 01:10:09,319
Yeah.

1154
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:11,401
...if I suddenly produce this letter...

1155
01:10:11,402 --> 01:10:12,361
Yeah.

1156
01:10:12,362 --> 01:10:15,193
...what's it going to do to her?

1157
01:10:15,194 --> 01:10:16,860
And that's why I sat on it.

1158
01:10:16,861 --> 01:10:18,527
Make no bones about it.

1159
01:10:20,902 --> 01:10:24,610
Cold this have been the last straw?

1160
01:10:24,611 --> 01:10:26,277
Ha.

1161
01:10:27,694 --> 01:10:29,026
Do you know, I can remember

1162
01:10:29,027 --> 01:10:31,235
you put it back in the envelope.

1163
01:10:31,236 --> 01:10:33,026
What was the period of time between

1164
01:10:33,027 --> 01:10:35,526
you getting the letter
and then finding out that

1165
01:10:35,527 --> 01:10:38,443
Mum had got a letter?

1166
01:10:38,444 --> 01:10:41,401
It could have been up to a year.

1167
01:10:41,402 --> 01:10:42,527
Oh really?

1168
01:10:42,528 --> 01:10:44,860
It could have, it could have been.

1169
01:10:44,861 --> 01:10:47,526
It was certainly months rather than weeks.

1170
01:10:47,527 --> 01:10:50,401
Right.

1171
01:10:50,402 --> 01:10:56,110
And... so you didn't
think it... you were just

1172
01:10:56,111 --> 01:10:58,318
going to... you weren't going to...

1173
01:10:58,319 --> 01:10:59,860
I put it to one side.

1174
01:10:59,861 --> 01:11:04,526
What I would have
subsequently done, I don't know.

1175
01:11:04,527 --> 01:11:06,360
Fortunately, Betty

1176
01:11:06,361 --> 01:11:07,901
dealt with the letter... -Yeah.

1177
01:11:07,902 --> 01:11:11,193
...opened that up, and
then from that moment on,

1178
01:11:11,194 --> 01:11:13,860
I don't think I've even let on,

1179
01:11:13,861 --> 01:11:18,902
until now, that we also had a letter.

1180
01:11:21,402 --> 01:11:22,486
Well that must been quite a lot

1181
01:11:22,487 --> 01:11:25,527
of pressure, sitting on that letter.

1182
01:11:27,069 --> 01:11:31,610
It gave me a lot to think about.

1183
01:11:31,611 --> 01:11:33,861
A lot to think about.

1184
01:11:45,194 --> 01:11:48,818
When I heard that Lillian had been found,

1185
01:11:48,819 --> 01:11:53,193
I really thought it was a miracle.

1186
01:11:53,194 --> 01:11:57,901
I was so excited and
so happy, and of course

1187
01:11:57,902 --> 01:12:00,026
we couldn't connect right away.

1188
01:12:00,027 --> 01:12:04,151
We had to write a letter
and get permission.

1189
01:12:04,152 --> 01:12:06,276
Then we just started writing all the time,

1190
01:12:06,277 --> 01:12:09,693
and calling, and after a
very short time I told Lillian

1191
01:12:09,694 --> 01:12:13,735
that I would like to come
and visit her in London.

1192
01:12:13,736 --> 01:12:14,777
Hello?

1193
01:12:14,778 --> 01:12:16,193
Hi, Lillian.

1194
01:12:16,194 --> 01:12:19,110
I wanted her to come,

1195
01:12:19,111 --> 01:12:21,610
and I wanted to see her,

1196
01:12:21,611 --> 01:12:24,776
but I had no idea what she would be like.

1197
01:12:24,777 --> 01:12:27,526
I mean, she could have been one of these

1198
01:12:27,527 --> 01:12:29,526
bitter, screwed up girls

1199
01:12:29,527 --> 01:12:30,818
that wanted to come and give me a...

1200
01:12:30,819 --> 01:12:33,360
Tell me off LILLIAN... if
you know what I mean.

1201
01:12:33,361 --> 01:12:36,151
And I say to Ira,

1202
01:12:36,152 --> 01:12:38,901
Ira, you've got to go and
meet her at the airport,

1203
01:12:38,902 --> 01:12:42,361
'cause I can't handle that.

1204
01:12:43,694 --> 01:12:46,651
I went to Heathrow to pick her up,

1205
01:12:46,652 --> 01:12:49,235
without knowing who she
was or what she looked like,

1206
01:12:49,236 --> 01:12:51,360
and as soon as she came through arrivals,

1207
01:12:51,361 --> 01:12:53,818
I knew immediately she was my half-sister,

1208
01:12:53,819 --> 01:12:55,276
because there was a resemblance.

1209
01:12:55,277 --> 01:12:57,610
When Ira picked me up, I was in a daze.

1210
01:12:57,611 --> 01:13:00,276
Not because of jetlag
or anything, but just

1211
01:13:00,277 --> 01:13:04,026
because it felt so surreal
that Lillian's daughter

1212
01:13:04,027 --> 01:13:05,401
was picking me up.

1213
01:13:05,402 --> 01:13:07,360
It wasn't tears or anything for me 'cause

1214
01:13:07,361 --> 01:13:08,610
I had no... I had no emotional bond.

1215
01:13:08,611 --> 01:13:11,360
I knew she was my
sister, but I didn't know...

1216
01:13:11,361 --> 01:13:13,777
I've never met this person before.

1217
01:13:29,819 --> 01:13:32,526
She brings Michelle here.

1218
01:13:32,527 --> 01:13:36,276
We embrace, we don't... we both cry,

1219
01:13:36,277 --> 01:13:41,526
as women do, and we
just clicked immediately.

1220
01:13:41,527 --> 01:13:46,236
There was no why, who, where.

1221
01:13:53,319 --> 01:13:55,026
And then I just saw Lillian standing

1222
01:13:55,027 --> 01:14:00,693
there in her apron, and just holding me,

1223
01:14:00,694 --> 01:14:04,485
and nothing else mattered after that.

1224
01:14:04,486 --> 01:14:06,901
Suddenly this beautiful,

1225
01:14:06,902 --> 01:14:12,736
charming young woman as my little girl.

1226
01:14:15,944 --> 01:14:19,401
After Michelle came to London,

1227
01:14:19,402 --> 01:14:25,818
I then went to visit Andrew in America.

1228
01:14:25,819 --> 01:14:32,151
When Raymond took Michelle
away, she was 18 months.

1229
01:14:32,152 --> 01:14:36,401
I had Andrew for a much longer time.

1230
01:14:36,402 --> 01:14:40,818
I don't know that the loss
of him was more painful,

1231
01:14:40,819 --> 01:14:45,485
but that he had such an unfortunate time.

1232
01:14:45,486 --> 01:14:46,611
What, and you think Michelle

1233
01:14:46,612 --> 01:14:48,568
had less of an unfortunate time?

1234
01:14:48,569 --> 01:14:50,526
I think so.

1235
01:14:50,527 --> 01:14:55,235
Because when Raymond met another woman,

1236
01:14:55,236 --> 01:15:00,068
and drew Andrew away, this was Rosa.

1237
01:15:00,069 --> 01:15:03,193
He married her, I think.

1238
01:15:03,194 --> 01:15:07,693
She said that Andrew
would get up in the night

1239
01:15:07,694 --> 01:15:11,194
and sort of be looking for me.

1240
01:15:16,527 --> 01:15:17,652
Have you ever told Andrew

1241
01:15:17,653 --> 01:15:19,526
your side of the story before?

1242
01:15:19,527 --> 01:15:20,818
I don't think so.

1243
01:15:20,819 --> 01:15:23,026
-Really? -No.

1244
01:15:23,027 --> 01:15:24,776
So what have you discussed with him?

1245
01:15:24,777 --> 01:15:26,860
Tell you the truth, I'm not quite sure.

1246
01:15:26,861 --> 01:15:28,693
You never had that
conversation with Andrew?

1247
01:15:28,694 --> 01:15:30,277
No.

1248
01:15:32,777 --> 01:15:34,693
You've had lots of these
conversations with Michelle.

1249
01:15:34,694 --> 01:15:35,736
Yes.

1250
01:15:35,736 --> 01:15:36,777
So surely you've got to have

1251
01:15:36,778 --> 01:15:38,235
at least one with Andrew.

1252
01:15:38,236 --> 01:15:39,693
Yes.

1253
01:15:39,694 --> 01:15:41,526
That's what I've got to do.

1254
01:15:41,527 --> 01:15:43,152
Oh God.

1255
01:15:52,861 --> 01:15:55,818
-Hello! -Hello, Lillian!

1256
01:15:55,819 --> 01:15:57,235
No one in our family

1257
01:15:57,236 --> 01:16:01,276
was going to miss out
on Mum's big trip to LA.

1258
01:16:01,277 --> 01:16:02,901
You look good, David.

1259
01:16:02,902 --> 01:16:04,110
Thank you, thank you.

1260
01:16:04,111 --> 01:16:05,027
So do you.

1261
01:16:05,028 --> 01:16:07,526
You look beautiful, as always, as always.

1262
01:16:07,527 --> 01:16:09,944
These Persian men always go for me.

1263
01:16:11,861 --> 01:16:12,819
This is the Beverly Hills

1264
01:16:12,820 --> 01:16:15,735
soup kitchen we're in right now.

1265
01:16:15,736 --> 01:16:18,776
That people over there, they're my family.

1266
01:16:18,777 --> 01:16:20,152
I married into them.

1267
01:16:21,902 --> 01:16:23,694
They're mad.

1268
01:16:24,694 --> 01:16:27,526
It's so good to see you, Michelle.

1269
01:16:27,527 --> 01:16:30,361
It's so good to see you.

1270
01:16:39,527 --> 01:16:40,694
I doubt if you'll be able to

1271
01:16:40,695 --> 01:16:42,944
do it here, Mish.

1272
01:16:44,486 --> 01:16:47,194
You did it. Well done. I'll puff.

1273
01:16:49,777 --> 01:16:52,318
Michelle, what do you think of my shoes?

1274
01:16:52,319 --> 01:16:53,735
They're nice.

1275
01:16:53,736 --> 01:16:56,360
Aren't they the business?

1276
01:16:56,361 --> 01:16:59,943
I bought these for our party.

1277
01:16:59,944 --> 01:17:01,985
I went shopping...

1278
01:17:01,986 --> 01:17:03,401
And are you comfortable in them?

1279
01:17:03,402 --> 01:17:05,818
Oh yes!

1280
01:17:05,819 --> 01:17:08,193
Do you know, I love palm trees.

1281
01:17:08,194 --> 01:17:09,651
They're very, very thin.

1282
01:17:09,652 --> 01:17:12,359
From a distance they look
like the wind would break it.

1283
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:13,568
Yeah.

1284
01:17:13,569 --> 01:17:15,359
But um...

1285
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:18,443
Are they the ones that grow the dates?

1286
01:17:18,444 --> 01:17:20,360
Yes.

1287
01:17:39,735 --> 01:17:41,359
Do you know how painful it is

1288
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:43,193
when your child is no longer there

1289
01:17:43,194 --> 01:17:44,859
and you have their toys?

1290
01:17:44,860 --> 01:17:46,193
How do you know that?

1291
01:17:46,194 --> 01:17:48,443
Because I look at my grandson's toys

1292
01:17:48,444 --> 01:17:52,069
and I've given them away.

1293
01:17:54,985 --> 01:17:56,276
The same thing that happened

1294
01:17:56,277 --> 01:17:59,484
to my grand-mother has happened to me.

1295
01:17:59,485 --> 01:18:01,026
After my son's

1296
01:18:01,027 --> 01:18:04,193
separation from his partner,

1297
01:18:04,194 --> 01:18:09,693
she and my grandson, they moved to Europe.

1298
01:18:09,694 --> 01:18:11,443
So your son has no idea where his son is?

1299
01:18:11,444 --> 01:18:14,484
Nothing.

1300
01:18:14,485 --> 01:18:16,276
Listen, I'm his grandmother

1301
01:18:16,277 --> 01:18:20,359
and I am thinking about him...

1302
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:21,527
Oh baby.

1303
01:18:21,528 --> 01:18:23,068
...all the time.

1304
01:18:23,069 --> 01:18:25,276
That's why I moved Bubba's picture up,

1305
01:18:25,277 --> 01:18:30,193
because I don't want my
story to be the same as...

1306
01:18:30,194 --> 01:18:31,194
Oh yeah?

1307
01:18:31,194 --> 01:18:32,360
Well I put it away.

1308
01:18:32,361 --> 01:18:34,171
I said, 'this is not going to happen.'

1309
01:18:35,402 --> 01:18:38,234
There's Miranda, Andrew's daughter.

1310
01:18:38,235 --> 01:18:40,484
That's his daughter
from his first marriage?

1311
01:18:40,485 --> 01:18:41,527
Yeah.

1312
01:18:41,528 --> 01:18:42,734
Where's she now?

1313
01:18:42,735 --> 01:18:43,777
Who knows?

1314
01:18:43,778 --> 01:18:46,818
She came, we had such a good time,

1315
01:18:46,819 --> 01:18:49,026
and then she just disappeared.

1316
01:18:49,027 --> 01:18:50,609
So what, he got divorced?

1317
01:18:50,610 --> 01:18:52,026
Yes.

1318
01:18:52,027 --> 01:18:55,026
He came home and they were gone.

1319
01:18:55,027 --> 01:18:56,651
You didn't know?

1320
01:18:56,652 --> 01:19:00,026
Yeah, one day Andrew
comes home and he sees

1321
01:19:00,027 --> 01:19:03,359
that everything is packed
and gone, money's gone.

1322
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:05,068
And she'd left.

1323
01:19:05,069 --> 01:19:06,943
His wife and daughter, just gone.

1324
01:19:06,944 --> 01:19:08,193
Yes.

1325
01:19:08,194 --> 01:19:10,527
The child was just a baby.

1326
01:19:17,985 --> 01:19:21,234
At the tone, please record your message.

1327
01:19:21,235 --> 01:19:22,484
Hey Andrew, it's Danny,

1328
01:19:22,485 --> 01:19:23,527
we're on our way.

1329
01:19:23,528 --> 01:19:25,193
We'll be at you more like 11.30,

1330
01:19:25,194 --> 01:19:27,943
but could you just text
me please your address?

1331
01:19:27,944 --> 01:19:30,235
Thanks very much. Cheers. Bye.

1332
01:19:31,860 --> 01:19:34,109
So I think it's important today if you

1333
01:19:34,110 --> 01:19:38,026
could tell him your... your story about...

1334
01:19:38,027 --> 01:19:39,526
And what would've been even better

1335
01:19:39,527 --> 01:19:42,360
if I'd remembered to
bring my Ativan with me.

1336
01:19:51,735 --> 01:19:53,151
There's Andrew's truck.

1337
01:19:53,152 --> 01:19:55,443
What, Kettle Chips?

1338
01:19:55,444 --> 01:19:57,277
Yes, distributed by Andrew...

1339
01:20:06,819 --> 01:20:09,359
Why I put tights on, I don't know.

1340
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,027
I can't tell you.

1341
01:20:13,902 --> 01:20:17,693
-Hello, hello. -Hello, Andrew. Hello.

1342
01:20:17,694 --> 01:20:19,901
So it's only me and you today.

1343
01:20:19,902 --> 01:20:21,527
Nobody else here.

1344
01:20:22,527 --> 01:20:24,151
Where is Diane?

1345
01:20:24,152 --> 01:20:25,859
Hospital, and the doctor.

1346
01:20:25,860 --> 01:20:27,359
I gave it at school.

1347
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:28,776
Oh.

1348
01:20:28,777 --> 01:20:29,860
So how are you?

1349
01:20:29,861 --> 01:20:31,193
I'm alright.

1350
01:20:31,194 --> 01:20:32,526
Are you? -I'm good.

1351
01:20:32,527 --> 01:20:34,026
So let's come and sit down.

1352
01:20:34,027 --> 01:20:36,401
Let me put the light on.

1353
01:20:36,402 --> 01:20:39,526
Isn't that lovely?

1354
01:20:39,527 --> 01:20:41,609
It brings you back memories?

1355
01:20:41,610 --> 01:20:42,859
Yeah?

1356
01:20:42,860 --> 01:20:46,359
Yes it does, Andrew, yes it does.

1357
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:50,693
But, what can you do?

1358
01:20:50,694 --> 01:20:54,276
There's nothing clever to say, Andrew.

1359
01:20:54,277 --> 01:20:56,359
Because you had each other,

1360
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:57,818
you were not alone.

1361
01:20:57,819 --> 01:20:58,735
No.

1362
01:20:58,736 --> 01:21:00,818
If you'd been an only child,

1363
01:21:00,819 --> 01:21:03,276
it would have been worse.

1364
01:21:03,277 --> 01:21:05,734
At least you had each other.

1365
01:21:05,735 --> 01:21:08,818
So Andrew, in this family saga

1366
01:21:08,819 --> 01:21:11,193
I found out from Michelle
that you've lost contact with

1367
01:21:11,194 --> 01:21:12,859
your own daughter.

1368
01:21:12,860 --> 01:21:15,401
I wasn't close to Miranda.

1369
01:21:15,402 --> 01:21:17,151
How old is she now?

1370
01:21:17,152 --> 01:21:18,776
She must be thirty.

1371
01:21:18,777 --> 01:21:20,359
So you're not in contact?

1372
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:22,193
No, I have no contact.

1373
01:21:22,194 --> 01:21:24,068
I would say, the door is open.

1374
01:21:24,069 --> 01:21:26,568
You know, I haven't moved all these years.

1375
01:21:26,569 --> 01:21:28,526
My telephone number is the same number

1376
01:21:28,527 --> 01:21:30,151
after all these years.

1377
01:21:30,152 --> 01:21:31,901
So if she ever wants to get in touch,

1378
01:21:31,902 --> 01:21:34,026
you know, it's easy to find me.

1379
01:21:34,027 --> 01:21:36,484
- The door is open.
- Yeah, the door is open.

1380
01:21:36,485 --> 01:21:39,819
I'm dying for a cup of tea, Andrew.

1381
01:21:54,527 --> 01:21:57,401
You've never really told Andrew

1382
01:21:57,402 --> 01:22:00,859
your experience of what
happened on that day.

1383
01:22:00,860 --> 01:22:02,943
So I don't know if you're
interested, Andrew,

1384
01:22:02,944 --> 01:22:04,776
but I thought...

1385
01:22:04,777 --> 01:22:06,026
If you want.

1386
01:22:06,027 --> 01:22:07,984
It's no big deal, Andrew.

1387
01:22:07,985 --> 01:22:10,693
It's just I was living with my mother.

1388
01:22:10,694 --> 01:22:13,359
It wasn't easy.

1389
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,443
And your father came.

1390
01:22:16,444 --> 01:22:20,901
We lived near a very nice
park, and your father came

1391
01:22:20,902 --> 01:22:23,193
and he said to me, he wanted to take

1392
01:22:23,194 --> 01:22:25,401
the children to the park.

1393
01:22:25,402 --> 01:22:27,693
And I never thought anything.

1394
01:22:27,694 --> 01:22:29,693
And I said, 'fine.'

1395
01:22:29,694 --> 01:22:32,193
And he never brought you back.

1396
01:22:32,194 --> 01:22:34,777
I think this is something that, er,

1397
01:22:38,777 --> 01:22:41,484
whether my father
thinks, this is something

1398
01:22:41,485 --> 01:22:45,151
that I think it is possible.

1399
01:22:45,152 --> 01:22:46,734
This film is going to get me into trouble,

1400
01:22:46,735 --> 01:22:48,443
but I don't care.

1401
01:22:48,444 --> 01:22:50,068
Somebody has to tell the truth.

1402
01:22:50,069 --> 01:22:52,359
Everybody's kissing up
to my father's rear end

1403
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:54,651
because they think...
this is what I think.

1404
01:22:54,652 --> 01:22:57,484
They think when he
sells his property in Iran

1405
01:22:57,485 --> 01:22:59,568
or something that he has left,

1406
01:22:59,569 --> 01:23:02,193
that they get a share of it.

1407
01:23:02,194 --> 01:23:05,234
I don't care about my share.

1408
01:23:05,235 --> 01:23:06,943
If he wants to give it, give it.

1409
01:23:06,944 --> 01:23:09,651
He's never given me when I needed it.

1410
01:23:09,652 --> 01:23:11,901
Has anyone said to you that

1411
01:23:11,902 --> 01:23:14,068
you shouldn't do the film?

1412
01:23:14,069 --> 01:23:15,693
If they said, I would... bullshit.

1413
01:23:15,694 --> 01:23:18,568
You know, Danny when I got the cancer...

1414
01:23:18,569 --> 01:23:19,527
...when I got the cancer...

1415
01:23:19,528 --> 01:23:21,276
Yeah.

1416
01:23:21,277 --> 01:23:23,859
...nobody fucking in my family helped me.

1417
01:23:23,860 --> 01:23:25,060
Nobody.

1418
01:23:33,402 --> 01:23:36,652
Isn't it terrible?

1419
01:23:46,194 --> 01:23:49,027
I just need to relax a bit.

1420
01:23:51,777 --> 01:23:55,069
When I first got
diagnosed with this cancer,

1421
01:23:57,944 --> 01:23:59,651
I couldn't get insurance.

1422
01:23:59,652 --> 01:24:01,984
Nobody helped me one penny,

1423
01:24:01,985 --> 01:24:05,693
not one penny, till thank God, Obama came

1424
01:24:05,694 --> 01:24:07,109
and changed the insurance thing,

1425
01:24:07,110 --> 01:24:09,609
the insurance for pre-existing conditions,

1426
01:24:09,610 --> 01:24:11,693
that I was able to get
out of that hospital.

1427
01:24:11,694 --> 01:24:14,026
As soon as I got into that hospital,

1428
01:24:14,027 --> 01:24:15,901
the first thing the
doctor came and told me,

1429
01:24:15,902 --> 01:24:17,901
'you've got six months to live.'

1430
01:24:17,902 --> 01:24:19,027
First thing.

1431
01:24:19,028 --> 01:24:21,693
That's the first thing she
came into my room and told me.

1432
01:24:21,694 --> 01:24:23,026
Instead of giving you hope,

1433
01:24:23,027 --> 01:24:24,359
come and tell you you
got six months to live

1434
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:30,109
and you're gonna die, and
you've got a young kid at home?

1435
01:24:30,110 --> 01:24:31,277
And this is where my family...

1436
01:24:31,278 --> 01:24:33,109
so I know my family.

1437
01:24:33,110 --> 01:24:35,359
I think Uncle Manny did more for me

1438
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:37,693
than my father.

1439
01:24:37,694 --> 01:24:38,819
In what way, Andrew?

1440
01:24:38,819 --> 01:24:39,777
I don't want to mention,

1441
01:24:39,778 --> 01:24:42,568
but I'm just going to say
this, but he helped me.

1442
01:24:42,569 --> 01:24:45,026
Really? I didn't know that.

1443
01:24:45,027 --> 01:24:46,027
Yeah.

1444
01:24:46,028 --> 01:24:47,984
So how come your Uncle
that you haven't seen

1445
01:24:47,985 --> 01:24:51,734
for all these years help you,
and nobody else helps you?

1446
01:24:51,735 --> 01:24:56,359
I didn't know.

1447
01:24:56,360 --> 01:25:00,068
You know, Andrew, I'm sitting here,

1448
01:25:00,069 --> 01:25:04,193
and when I think of what I've gone through

1449
01:25:04,194 --> 01:25:07,109
is absolutely nothing

1450
01:25:07,110 --> 01:25:10,069
in comparison to what you've gone through.

1451
01:25:21,485 --> 01:25:23,777
It's quite a story.

1452
01:25:26,485 --> 01:25:29,026
- But Andrew, we lived to tell the tale.
- Sure.

1453
01:25:29,027 --> 01:25:30,859
That's the only thing to say.

1454
01:25:30,860 --> 01:25:32,060
Yep.

1455
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:03,860
Don't film me in my bikini.

1456
01:26:25,610 --> 01:26:30,318
However far you go on the
road, there's still a long way to go.

1457
01:26:30,319 --> 01:26:31,652
That's right.

1458
01:26:42,444 --> 01:26:44,194
We are waiting for Danny?

1459
01:26:45,902 --> 01:26:47,734
We are waiting for Danny? - Yeah.

1460
01:26:47,735 --> 01:26:48,943
He's got to ring?

1461
01:26:48,944 --> 01:26:50,144
Yeah, yeah.

1462
01:27:05,027 --> 01:27:09,359
Did you... did you ever love Mum? Lillian?

1463
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:10,818
Did you ever love her?

1464
01:27:10,819 --> 01:27:15,859
Of course I loved her,
otherwise I wouldn't marry her.

1465
01:27:15,860 --> 01:27:18,859
I loved all the women I've been with.

1466
01:27:18,860 --> 01:27:20,609
This is the truth.

1467
01:27:20,610 --> 01:27:24,276
I loved her, and I love many women.

1468
01:27:24,277 --> 01:27:27,443
No, but what I'm asking is,

1469
01:27:27,444 --> 01:27:29,568
whether you loved her as a person.

1470
01:27:29,569 --> 01:27:31,359
You know, this was
someone you wanted to spend

1471
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:32,943
the rest of your life with.

1472
01:27:32,944 --> 01:27:37,484
What you ask about
love and this sort of thing,

1473
01:27:37,485 --> 01:27:42,776
you have to talk to a... a writer.

1474
01:27:42,777 --> 01:27:44,277
I'm not a writer.

1475
01:27:47,527 --> 01:27:52,859
Look Danny, what happened
in the past is the past.

1476
01:27:52,860 --> 01:27:55,568
You cannot bring the past back.

1477
01:27:55,569 --> 01:27:59,568
It's not just the history of
what happened on that day,

1478
01:27:59,569 --> 01:28:06,026
but consequences that
people are living with today.

1479
01:28:06,027 --> 01:28:07,694
I understand what you say.

1480
01:28:13,235 --> 01:28:14,527
What can we do?

1481
01:28:16,777 --> 01:28:19,193
What can we do?

1482
01:28:19,194 --> 01:28:20,652
What do you want to do?

1483
01:28:22,777 --> 01:28:24,901
If you could do it all over again,

1484
01:28:24,902 --> 01:28:29,068
is there anything you
would want to say to Mum?

1485
01:28:29,069 --> 01:28:32,069
Can I change it? No.

1486
01:28:40,860 --> 01:28:42,360
Danny, how's your mother?

1487
01:28:44,027 --> 01:28:48,068
Um, she's alright.

1488
01:28:48,069 --> 01:28:49,269
Okay.

1489
01:28:53,319 --> 01:28:55,694
Danny, it was a pleasure to talk to you.

1490
01:28:56,527 --> 01:29:02,360
I'm sorry for the hard life
you had with your mother.

1491
01:29:04,485 --> 01:29:10,234
If you see Lily, give her my regards,

1492
01:29:10,235 --> 01:29:16,109
and say, 'Lily, you're not a bad girl.

1493
01:29:16,110 --> 01:29:17,310
You're alright.'

1494
01:29:46,819 --> 01:29:50,110
Do you have any
recollections... what have we got?

1495
01:29:51,944 --> 01:29:52,819
Let me go and just have a look.

1496
01:29:52,819 --> 01:29:53,777
Just give me a second.

1497
01:29:53,777 --> 01:29:54,944
We're almost done, Mum. -Don't worry.

1498
01:29:54,945 --> 01:29:57,984
We've got like two
tiny little things to do.

1499
01:29:57,985 --> 01:29:59,027
Don't worry.

1500
01:29:59,028 --> 01:30:01,359
Anything else is irrelevant.

1501
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:04,860
Okay. This is true.

1502
01:30:07,194 --> 01:30:10,901
- Sorry, is something... a machine on?
- Yes.

1503
01:30:10,902 --> 01:30:12,859
Okay, do you mind turning it off, please?

1504
01:30:12,860 --> 01:30:13,860
Impossible.

1505
01:30:13,861 --> 01:30:18,568
- You must turn it off. - We can't.

1506
01:30:18,569 --> 01:30:19,902
Thank you very much.

1507
01:30:30,027 --> 01:30:31,943
-We'll have to reset. -Okay.

1508
01:30:31,944 --> 01:30:37,359
My problem is I never know
what I'm letting myself in for.

1509
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:39,818
You say, 'Mum, I want
to do a documentary.'

1510
01:30:39,819 --> 01:30:42,859
Do I think, do I want to do it?

1511
01:30:42,860 --> 01:30:45,609
No, my first response is, 'yes.'

1512
01:30:45,610 --> 01:30:48,068
And before everybody sees this,

1513
01:30:48,069 --> 01:30:50,485
I want to see it myself.

1514
01:30:53,652 --> 01:30:56,902
I wish I could have done more.

1515
01:30:58,027 --> 01:31:00,526
But you know, I've just got this feeling

1516
01:31:00,527 --> 01:31:02,526
of Bubba looking down on us.

1517
01:31:02,527 --> 01:31:03,727
Yeah.

1518
01:31:04,694 --> 01:31:06,859
Well Bubba would be very happy, Mum.

1519
01:31:06,860 --> 01:31:08,276
Do you think so?

1520
01:31:08,277 --> 01:31:09,735
Of course she would be.

1521
01:31:44,819 --> 01:31:50,109
What happened here was
the Holocaust by bullets.

1522
01:31:50,110 --> 01:31:51,859
They gathered the Jews up,

1523
01:31:51,860 --> 01:31:54,693
brought them somewhere
into the local forest

1524
01:31:54,694 --> 01:31:57,194
and killed them there.

1525
01:31:58,402 --> 01:32:01,026
What happened is what
happened to our family,

1526
01:32:01,027 --> 01:32:02,860
our great-grandparents.